In Rainbows and Pots of Gold

[Leonie]

Radiohead's new album, In Rainbows, is out. And it's up to you how much you pay for it.

It's fairly simple: you go to http://radiohead.co.uk and download the album. When you proceed to the digital checkout, you're free to enter whichever amount suits you.

And I don't know what to do. On the one hand, I'm poor. On the other hand, Radiohead are geniuses and I want to pay them a fair amount for their work. It's a fantastic anthropological experiment, and I bet Radiohead are enjoying it far too much. Heh.

Now, I realise this thread is a "You couldn't pay me to listen to it." invitation of sorts, but just think about the bigger picture; imagine a band or artist you admire doing something along these lines.

How much will you pay for Radiohead? And how much would you pay for other albums if it were left up to you?

My head hurts.

(And those of you who don't get the thread title need more Stereophonics in their life.)

[Mandy]

I think it's amazing that they're doing that. It's a bit like reverse psychology. You KNOW they're not making you buy it so it almost makes you feel like you have to give them SOMETHING. Or maybe they don't think it's a very good album.

[Jacoby]

You can just put zero in as the amount you want to pay for the album. Don't feel bad about getting it for free. Because if you think about it, they're cutting out the middle man and distributing the album themselves, which means it's ALL PROFIT for the band. Usually the band gets a tiny tiny fraction of the profit from selling a cd at a store. Also, they're already billionaires and I'm in school debt.

I've listened to the album once while driving to a different city with friends...sounds pretty grand so far.

[Leonie]

I paid 5.13 pounds. I figure, sure, I can get it for free, but I do love Radiohead, and I wish them all the profit in the world. It's only fair, they put the effort in. Plus, they're pretty good with charities and the like.

It just doesn't feel right getting it for free when I'd inject Radiohead into my vanes if I could. Damn conscience.

[Jacoby]

Originally Posted by Leonie

I paid 5.13 pounds. I figure, sure, I can get it for free, but I do love Radiohead, and I wish them all the profit in the world. It's only fair, they put the effort in. Plus, they're pretty good with charities and the like.

It just doesn't feel right getting it for free when I'd inject Radiohead into my vanes if I could.

Is it okay if I feel justified paying 0 because you paid 5 and some change? Like, we both went to a friend's birthday party, and I just wrote my name on the bottom of the card you got him...

[Leonie]

Radiohead want you to work that one out for yourself, I think

I don't know... loving Radiohead as much as I do, I know I'm going to listen to this till the cows come home. For me, it was only right that I paid them something.

And heh. Your quote looks funny now cause I added a bit to my post. Sorry

[Jacoby]

Yeah, I can understand that. Radiohead's not nearly a favorite band of mine, but I like them a lot. But honestly, in my case, if they came out with a standard cd release, I would have just downloaded it on a bit torrent.

But maybe if my number one drug-like band did this, I'd pay around $7 - $10... Actually I have done it because I bought cd's at concerts that I've already had downloaded on my computer just to support the band (and also because the merch lady was really attractive.)

[Banana Breakfast]

I just counted, and I made nine threads about this album. But I made them like twelve or thirteen days ago. I don't really feel like getting into this again, but it's pretty much the best album in seven years.

Also, I love watching people try to hold on to their little ideal of morality, once the risk of consequence has been removed from the act of stealing something they want. (Not that this is the same as peer-to-peer. In fact, given that this is supposed to give them an idea of what people think they should pay for music, and since no one under 30 pays for music, I think it would be inaccurate to pay.)

"Downloading is stealing. You wouldn't steal a car would you?"

And you wouldn't. Because it's not worth the risk of jailtime, and as importantly, social stigma.

If you could do it with zero ("earthly") risk, you'd all start coming up with hilariously poorly thought-out reasons why it's OK, even though burglary is still "wrong."

[Leonie]

Be condescending about morality all you want, but given the choice, I'll gladly pay a bit for Radiohead. If you have a problem with that because it interferes with the generalising you like to use to justify your own behaviour, then I'm sorry

Mind you, I'll download music I wouldn't otherwise buy, but I know that I'd buy this album if it was in the shops, and I wouldn't nick it from a music shop (except maybe Virgin), so this was pretty much the same.

In addition, it's a way of saying "thanks and btw, I think you guys kinda rock," which, let's be honest, needs to be said to Radiohead pretty much every 8th of a second.

[Banana Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Leonie

Be condescending about morality all you want, but given the choice, I'll gladly pay a bit for Radiohead. If you have a problem with that because it interferes with the generalising you like to use to justify your own behaviour, then I'm sorry

Mind you, I'll download music I wouldn't otherwise buy, but I know that I'd buy this album if it was in the shops, and I wouldn't nick it from a music shop (except maybe Virgin), so this was pretty much the same.

In addition, it's a way of saying "thanks and btw, I think you guys kinda rock," which, let's be honest, needs to be said to Radiohead pretty much every 8th of a second.

You're the one trying to justify. I admit that it's stealing. It's just that I can get away with stealing, and since there's no magic monster to get me for it, I have a hard time find justification not to steal it.

Regardless, I bought the discset.

[Ranman]

I have no problem getting free music, for 20 years they robbed me blind. I have no guilt, i'll sleep fine knowing i did it.

[Banana Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Ranman

I have no problem getting free music, for 20 years they robbed me blind. I have no guilt, i'll sleep fine knowing i did it.

So is that how it works? You steal from anyone who makes records, because years ago, other people who made records charged you a lot?

You bought the thing willingly, anyway. They charged what the market made "fair," and you chose to pay it, because it was worth it to you.

Of course, I could've misread that, and the robbing they did could've been like Jay-Z burglarized your home or something.

[Ranman]

Originally Posted by Banana Breakfast

So is that how it works? You steal from anyone who makes records, because years ago, other people who made records charged you a lot?

You bought the thing willingly, anyway. They charged what the market made "fair," and you chose to pay it, because it was worth it to you.

Of course, I could've misread that, and the robbing they did could've been like Jay-Z burglarized your home or something.

you didn't misread it, that pretty sums it up. CD's cost less than a penny and record companies use to charge me 15 to 20 bucks for a album, I have thousands of cd's. Its my turn to rob them.

[Banana Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Ranman

you didn't misread it, that pretty sums it up. CD's cost less than a penny and record companies use to charge me 15 to 20 bucks for a album, I have thousands of cd's. Its my turn to rob them.

They also can cost high six figures to produce, and can creatively and emotionally drain an artist. Plus, you know, it's theirs.

You're stealing it. I'm stealing, too. You can't justify it. But that doesn't make it "wrong."

[Leonie]

It's not stealing if they don't charge you. It's different, that's the whole point of this thread.

I felt the music was worth some of my money, you didn't necessarily. Simple.

In addition, I'm not justifying anything. I feel I did the right thing in my situation, so I can look myself in the eye, really (with the aid of a mirror, mind you)

[Banana Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Leonie

It's not stealing if they don't charge you. It's different, that's the whole point of this thread.

I felt the music was worth some of my money, you didn't necessarily. Simple.

In addition, I'm not justifying anything. I feel I did the right thing in my situation, so I can look myself in the eye, really (with the aid of a mirror, mind you)

I realize that this album is different, but there are still people making an argument for why stealing music isn't stealing.

My nonpayment (keep in mind, also, that I love the band so much that I shelled out $81 for the vinyl before hearing it) isn't about what it's "worth..." or maybe it is in the deeper enconomic sense. It's about this: there's no consequence for not paying. If I weren't telling everyone, no one would even know, so there aren't even socially stigmatic incentives. Just existential ones, based on illogical ideas. I'm not saying this is such a horrible thing; everyone trades logical value for existential-. It's just funny to me to watch people scramble to justify why they're not stealing, even whet they're clearly stealing (which in this one case, as I stated in my first post, probably isn't stealing).

[Leonie]

I find the idea that Radiohead know that not everyone feels their music isn't worth a few pounds I can live without worth it.

Of course no one knows what you pay - I'm not trying to show off, I'm trying to do the right thing by me. It's not about what anyone else thinks.

I think that's part of the game Radiohead are playing. How many people will do the right thing just cause someone's watching, and how many will live by their own rules of right and wrong?

I don't mean to imply that paying is somehow inherently better than not paying - it depends on your circumstances. It's about doing what's right for you, and by your rules. I think Radiohead just like to sit back and watch the bunny at the controls.

PS. You'll find that a download of the album is included with the boxset, so really, you paid for it. Love it or hate it, but we're in the same boat

[Banana Breakfast]

Originally Posted by Leonie

I find the idea that Radiohead know that not everyone feels their music isn't worth a few pounds I can live without worth it.

Of course no one knows what you pay - I'm not trying to show off, I'm trying to do the right thing by me. It's not about what anyone else thinks.

I think that's part of the game Radiohead are playing. How many people will do the right thing just cause someone's watching, and how many will live by their own rules of right and wrong?

I don't mean to imply that paying is somehow inherently better than not paying - it depends on your circumstances. It's about doing what's right for you, and by your rules. I think Radiohead just like to sit back and watch the bunny at the controls.

PS. You'll find that a download of the album is included with the boxset, so really, you paid for it. Love it or hate it, but we're in the same boat

I knew what was in there when I ordered it. I don't think stealing is "good," either. I wasn't trying to make some kind of a point by not paying.

I didn't think you were trying to show off at all.

In concept, Radiohead knowing you paid for it is sort of your existential payment. It may not be logical, because Radiohead doesn't know or care who you are, and will never meet you, but it's not like we don't all do things less logical than that daily.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no "right thing," and what motivates us is existentially valuable, like fantasy or whatever, but logically just isn't the equitable move, most of the time.

[Jacoby]

Originally Posted by Ranman

I have no guilt, i'll sleep fine knowing i did it.

Actually you sleep better. Studies have shown that those who pirate music get, on average, an extra 30 minutes of uninterrupted sleep.

[mongoose]

Then I have a question for you. In my case, I want to get the album, but in the shops I can't find it. If I download it from them, i can't pay for it, but I would like to give something for the album. What should I do ?