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Old 12-08-2006, 07:57 AM   #1
jackenton
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It's all "bushes" fault!!! lol Clinton never had these much problems.
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:36 PM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! KKWiki Contributer Senior Registered Member #2
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Yeah...terrorists didn't exist before Bush came along.

All that nonsense with the IRA and the bombings in Israel, those were just in our imagination. And Clinton never had to deal with, say, a bomb attack on the foundations of the World Trade Centre by Al-Qaeda (why does that name sound familiar?) or the same organisation bombing US embassies around the world. Those Tomahawks launched into Afghanistan were all just a dream we had. Bush is the root of all evil.
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:26 PM   Senior Registered Member #3
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Yeah, Bush is also extremely incompetent. A lot of people are wondering why they wanted him to be the prez. Sort of like how Lex Luthor is the president.

Apparently my friends dad was gonna be on one of the planes that was targeted. She said something like that, her dad might've been one of the pilots...
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:27 PM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Moderator #4
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I don't believe that Bush is as incompetent as we are led to believe.

Anyways, its good to see the British Intelligence system working effectively.
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Old 13-08-2006, 12:02 AM   #5
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If you don't think Bush is incompetent you haven't been watching. The man is dumb and incapable of running a country...or a toaster oven for that matter. Have you heard him speak? My favorite example of Bush's ignorance is this "Is our children learning?" HELLO how ironic that the president of a world super power can't seem to use proper grammar...or even notice when he's wrong... how ironic that that president, seemingly fighting a war against terror and nuclear weapons, can't manage to say "nuclear weapons" without mispronunciations. It makes me a little scared that my IQ is higher than that of the man that holds my future in his hands.
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Old 13-08-2006, 12:20 AM   Senior Registered Member #6
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We also invaded the wrong country. Bush is going to be a worse president than Buchanan.
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Old 13-08-2006, 04:08 AM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Officer #7
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Thank you U.K. Glad it was stopped.

As for all of this Bush talk...it makes me so sad to see my country divided against him and the War Against Terrorism. This division between us is going to prove much more dangerous than anything the terrorists can do to us now. I'm glad we had this wake up call on the 10th (I just wish more people woke up). Where we are at sort of reminds me of the general feelings right before the U.S. joined World War II. It might take a while, but someday people might have the guts to admit Bush wasn't the fuck up they once that. I think we need to buckle down and get serious in this war, we're just fucking around now.
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Old 13-08-2006, 04:59 AM   Senior Registered Member #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah
It makes me a little scared that my IQ is higher than that of the man that holds my future in his hands.
Don't worry, he may not do to well with the whole 'words and language' thing, but he does put lotion on his hands three to four times a day. So you're in good hands. You're in good, moisturized, soft, and sweet-scented hands.
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Old 13-08-2006, 11:04 AM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Moderator #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah
If you don't think Bush is incompetent you haven't been watching. The man is dumb and incapable of running a country...or a toaster oven for that matter. Have you heard him speak? My favorite example of Bush's ignorance is this "Is our children learning?" HELLO how ironic that the president of a world super power can't seem to use proper grammar...or even notice when he's wrong... how ironic that that president, seemingly fighting a war against terror and nuclear weapons, can't manage to say "nuclear weapons" without mispronunciations. It makes me a little scared that my IQ is higher than that of the man that holds my future in his hands.
Most doctors, firemen, police officers have a lower IQ than we do. They hold our future in their hands far more often than any president. Bush is smart enough to realise that most of the decisions should be left to his advisors. Who are some of the smartest people on the planet.
The capability to speak well in public does not necessarily correlate to being good at running a country. I agree that a well spoken president would be far more charismatic and worthy of trust, but hey. I suppose I don't live in the US, and he's not my president, but from what I can tell, he hasn't actually fucked anything up internally.
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Old 13-08-2006, 11:25 AM   First Class Member Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Moderator #10
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Leah, how old are you? 15? 16?
It's my experience that most 15 to 16-year olds don't know very much about politics, and therefor have rather extreme opinions about a given political person, such as 'he's the worst president ever', or 'he would make the best president ever' etc. It's the same with our prime minister. A huge part of the 16-year olds run around with their ugly Che t-shirts 'hating' the Prime minister. The change when they learn to see things from more than one perspective.
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Old 13-08-2006, 12:06 PM   Lifetme Service Award Officer #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foeni
Leah, how old are you? 15? 16?
It's my experience that most 15 to 16-year olds don't know very much about politics, and therefor have rather extreme opinions about a given political person, such as 'he's the worst president ever', or 'he would make the best president ever' etc. It's the same with our prime minister. A huge part of the 16-year olds run around with their ugly Che t-shirts 'hating' the Prime minister. The change when they learn to see things from more than one perspective.
Who died to make you so wise? I think a 16-year-old can have a well-informed opinion as much as you can. No need to be so damn condescending I think Bush has managed to annoy a great deal of foreign countries, which isn't the wisest thing to do in our current world of extremities and fanatacism. Moreover, he has proven himself to be less than grammatically capable, and sorely lacking in the "quick response in case of an emergency" department. He's not the worst, but he's a clown alright.
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Old 13-08-2006, 12:15 PM   Senior Registered Member #12
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Hm... entirely ignorant youth who doesn't give a damn or the youth that at least makes an attempt to be political, regardless of how little perspective they've had opened to them?
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Old 13-08-2006, 01:07 PM   First Class Member Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Moderator #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonie
Who died to make you so wise? I think a 16-year-old can have a well-informed opinion as much as you can. No need to be so damn condescending I think Bush has managed to annoy a great deal of foreign countries, which isn't the wisest thing to do in our current world of extremities and fanatacism. Moreover, he has proven himself to be less than grammatically capable, and sorely lacking in the "quick response in case of an emergency" department. He's not the worst, but he's a clown alright.
Of course a 16-year-old can have an as well-informed opinions as much as I can. All I'm saying is that very often they don't. I've too often seen people that age (usually boys, I know) only see things from one perspective. We have in Denmark this really left-wing political party. One of its front figures is a young woman, and you'd be surprised how many would vote for her 'because she's cool'. Luckily, they're not old enough to vote yet.
Another example is a political party that's rather nationalistic and wants a strict policy on immigrants. To a lot of the before mentioned youth, they're practically nazis. They simply look at a few issues and judge them on that.

I didn't mean to be condescending, Leah.
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Old 13-08-2006, 01:14 PM   Lifetme Service Award Officer #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foeni
Of course a 16-year-old can have an as well-informed opinions as much as I can. All I'm saying is that very often they don't. I've too often seen people that age (usually boys, I know) only see things from one perspective. We have in Denmark this really left-wing political party. One of its front figures is a young woman, and you'd be surprised how many would vote for her 'because she's cool'. Luckily, they're not old enough to vote yet.
Another example is a political party that's rather nationalistic and wants a strict policy on immigrants. To a lot of the before mentioned youth, they're practically nazis. They simply look at a few issues and judge them on that.

I didn't mean to be condescending, Leah.
Dude, you're my age. All I'm saying is that four years of age difference don't really qualify you to start professing utterances of great wisdom on the political capacity of people.
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Old 13-08-2006, 02:45 PM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! KKWiki Contributer Senior Registered Member #15
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I think what Foeni's getting at is young people jumping on the bandwagon. It may be harsh, but ironically enough had Leah come out in support of Bush, I think she would've come off as being a lot less naive.

Being anti-Bush these days, and using grammatical errors to back it up, smacks of believing everything you read in the press and everything you see on TV. In fact I've yet to hear any coherent anti-Bush argument, from teenagers or adults. It all focuses on the obvious negatives pointed out by an overtly left-wing media. We had the same issues with an overtly right-wing media in the 80s. People have short memories.

Never ever trust anything you read in the papers. And certainly not what you see on US TV stations. The UK TV stations probably operate under the strictest standards for unbiased, balanced and fair representation of the facts, and I know that as I've studied the regulations that the UK TV companies operate under and have compared them to the lax standards in Europe and even laxer ones in the US. However the corporates still have a massive problem. Ever since media ownership has become more and more converged in a minority of hands, the bias has become overt, and frankly, slightly worrying as I'd say the media are now a 4th arm of government and should be impartial.

That's why I tend to put a little more credibility behind what, for example, the BBC says. It's British, so subject to stronger regulations, and it's non-corporate, so it doesn't have the same sort of corporate bias. However even then I question it, largely as their close ties to the government mean that the BBC often strives too hard to appear impartial at the risk of actually becoming biased against the government. I try to apply my own intelligence to the facts presented, rather than believing the spin and simply "borrowing" the conclusion the media give me.

Bush seems a competent enough President. The fact is, like Cliff said, he's smart enough to leave the decisions up to those who know what they're doing. In fact, any good president does that. Clinton did the same. Just because he appears intelligent on TV (and he does) and has charisma (which he does) it does not mean his administration was any better, and it's those people that actually make the decisions. If you want to criticise Bush's administration, slag off Rice or Cheney, but to criticise them just because Bush has a low IQ is poor form.

As it happens I agree with Kelsey. Future generations will look back and realise how wrong they were about Bush and this war on Terrorism. So I applaud him and Blair for taking the flak and criticism now, for going against what their country wants and realising that perhaps, thanks to the intelligence available to them, they know better than us what our countries NEED (regardless of what we want). A good leader always ignores what the people want and does what they need. If they didn't we'd never pay any taxes, because you can sure as hell bet we don't WANT to pay taxes (but we have to). That's why we elect leaders, to insulate our politics from self-interest.
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Old 13-08-2006, 07:44 PM   #16
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I apologize if this comes off as disrespectful because in reality I respect all of you for your opinions because it's nice to see people who actually have them instead of the normal "I think you should follow someone even if you don't agree with them" or my favorite "You're a teenager, don't care about politics, it doesn't matter." But frankly you don't live in my country, you don't live in TEXAS more specifically. Every day of my life I think about that man because every day of my life I think about whether or not we have enough money to send my sister to college, whether my mom will be able to pay herself this month, whether we'll have to move again because living where we live may be too expensive. I have lived in 5 different houses since the Bush administration went into office because since then our economy has fallen to a deep and depressing low. My opinions of this administration don't come from the media though I do watch the news and it does enforce my opinions. My views come from my own experiences and my own life and the fact that at 15 my level of maturity and intelligence, and empathy exceeds that of my president. Perhaps my president knows about history, or calculus and things I don't know about but don't treat me like a naive child because you're sadly mistaken. My life revolves around president Bush. When I wake up in the morning I may get news that my cousin has died in that "war on terrorism". Don't underestimate what I know about the world or my intellect, because you don't live in my country, and you may know what goes on but you don't live under him. President Bush and the Bush administration is a lie, based on lies, living every day a lie. Every time president Bush says no child is left behind, it's a lie because thousands of our people and other citizens of other countries died so that he could "free Iraq" and "get rid of the threat of nuclear weapons" when in reality that's yet another lie. We are also terrorists because we're the ones bombing peoples homes, raping their children, murdering innocent families for a dream that is a lie.
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Old 13-08-2006, 08:41 PM   First Class Member Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! Moderator #17
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Wow. You hold the universal truth, don't you?
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Old 13-08-2006, 11:10 PM   Attended an OMGWTFKKWBBQ! KKWiki Contributer Senior Registered Member #18
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Yes because the war on terror only involves America. British soldiers aren't dying or anything. Believe it or not, Bush has as much impact on my life as yours. Want to know why? A rudimentary knowledge of economics would tell you that as the largest economic power in the world, a poor US economy has a knock-on effect everywhere else in the world. And as a member of the "coalition", my country has been involved in the same wars yours has. Ironically enough, this all began because of an attack on your country, so if anyone should feel resentful about being drawn into an "unnecessary" conflict, it should be us, not you.

The major concerns in the US economy (which I know because I have to study what goes on in your country for the sake of my job) are rising house prices and rising fuel prices. Newsflash: These are a concern internationally. In fact, your house prices and fuel prices are comparitively MUCH lower than ours. Your tax burden is MUCH lower than ours. Inflation is just as big a concern in this country, and many others, explaining why so many fiscal bodies have opted to raise interest rates, including the BOE, which was actually expected to pause. Oddly enough the Fed, which wasn't, did. The US economy is comparitively strong when internationally, every major country (including the US) is entering a slowdown. Even China, which is the fastest growing economy in the world, is slowing down. I don't need to "live in your country" to know all this.

Equally your point about the US economy? Massively flawed. Anyone with a basic understanding of government economic policies would know that they take years to have an effect. The slowdown in the US economy is actually the effect of the latter Clinton policies, not those of Bush, which are barely reaping any effect just yet. If anything Bush's economic and fiscal policies are far sounder than those of Clinton. Cutting taxes has served to fuel the US economy when it's entering a period of stagnation. You were headed that way anyway (economies are cyclical and you were reaching the end of a cycle this year anyway) but actually the statistics show that economic growth has been promoted by Bush's policies. The everyday life you're experiencing comes down to poor policies by his predecessor (who I liked, btw, so this isn't biased).

The hyperbole about an administration based on lies (as if any isn't) and about how America is the terrorist smack of media soundbites rather than sensible thought. And that's not based on your age, but on what you're saying, which sounds incredibly naive, and I'd say so whether it was coming from you or someone in their 20s, 30s or 40s. It's naive to believe the war in Iraq had just one reason behind it, it's equally factually incorrect to say WMDs were the reason for the war. Look back on what was said at the time. There were about a half-dozen reasons given. And some that weren't given (such as the Bush administration containing leftovers from his father's time and perhaps bearing a grudge). See I'm not apologist, I just recognise that whatever the reasons, the result caused will be the right one. Which is all that matters to me.

Bombing innocent homes? Murdering families? Do you even know how low the civilian death toll (caused directly by Allied troops/bombs) was? Most of the deaths happened as a result of insurgency, and yes, whilst that wouldn't have happened under Saddam, most of the same people would've been killed as a result of Saddam's fondness for genocide.

Between what the media tell you and what the government do, lies the truth.
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Old 14-08-2006, 12:01 AM   #19
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Hazzle I never said he didn't have an affect on you I said you didn't have to live under his governing. And another thing, if you had actually read what I'd said about the war you would have read the part about "other country's citizens". That includes yours too. Yeah as a world super power we have a pretty good economy compared to other countries but have you checked out the exchange rates lately? Hello? Your fuel prices are high but you have to recognize the difference in the way our countries are built. London is close together, has an underground, and taxis running throughout. In my country there are very few cities like that. Where I live everything is spread out and we use cars to get every place we need to go. Think about how cost effective it would be to add a subway to a city that spread apart? Thus we use alot of fuel. The US is a market economy, the more we need the more we get. The more there is the cheaper it is. Now another flaw I see is this...where do you think Bush gets the money for his war? where do you think he got the money to pay for the clean up of NYC? From our TAXES. He lowered the taxes the wealthy people have to pay significantly not that of the middle or lower classes of our country. I didn't say there was ONE reason for the flipping war either you just assumed that was the only one I thought there was because I didn't list the reasons. Media soundbites? That's bull. I can SEE, I have family members in the military. I don't need the media to know what happens in Iraq. Do you think that just because the amount of deaths for civilians is low it makes it okay? Do you think gang raping a 14 year old girl and murdering her parents and sister in front of her is okay?

"because you don't live in my country, and you may know what goes on but you don't live under him."

"I don't need to "live in your country" to know all this."

That's funny I didn't say you did.

"so if anyone should feel resentful about being drawn into an "unnecessary" conflict, it should be us, not you."
Excuse me but last time I checked Al Qaeda does not make up 100% of the Iraqi population so why wage war on the soil of a country who does not want us there? If waging a war like that isn't unnecessary I don't know what is. It's unnecessary to everyone involved just because we were attacked doesn't make it any less unnecessary. Enough people died win the towers fell, we don't need more to die over there. Freeing Iraq from the clutches of Saddam? Yay good plan but not when our president has enough problems to deal with in his OWN COUNTRY. Last time I checked Osama Bin Ladden was the one who decided it would be fun to knock down our towers. So what business do we have in Iraq? We're pulling regiments from Afghanistan but...(I'm really not sure about this one) isn't that a plausible place for him to be? Didn't we get news that he was there?


But actually you know what you probably know more about the technicalities of that war and the US economy than I do. I just know what I've learned and how this whole thing has effected me so whatever it doesn't really matter, does it? I know my opinions of him will never change.
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Old 14-08-2006, 12:26 AM   Senior Registered Member #20
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Bush has been packing the courts with extreme conservatives for the past six years....
That's my biggest complaint with him. In this country, the courts often have more of a direct impact on every day life than our elected leaders, as those leaders are usually too worthless and weak to take a real stand on anything.

We will not REALLY know how Bush affected this country for several years, once some matters of significance have come up before various courts. As for the war in Iraq and other assorted foreign policy blah blah -- I think it's impossible to say how history will view these situations. How Iraq will turn out is really going to depend on the next president, not Bush.
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