Moussaoui Gets Life

[Leonie]

Any psychologist with half a brain could have spelled out exactly what was going to happen. It's sad they weren't listened to. You can't even really 'blame' the torturers in the Iraqi prisons - its partly a psychologically explicable process.

The experiment I mentioned ended up being broken off after about four days, because the guards were torturing their class mates without remorse, and 'prisoners' started to crash. I think at least one of them ended up in a psychiatric hospital. If this can happen between class mates, because they are reduced to numbers, what do you think will happen when you stick a bunch of soldiers as guards in a prison, tell them Iraqis suck and you will show them how democracy works, and give them all a shiny overall?

[kingdumbass]

Yes, I've read about the experiment....
It's fascinating.

[Foeni]

These terrorists deserve the worst kind of punishment for their actions. As a lot have said, and they're right, the death penalty isn't punishment form a mulism fighting a holy war- Jihad. Being smashed up and raped is. That these things happen in prison, isn't of course the best thing in a democracy, but it happens. Therefor the punishment was right. Killing him is too easy.

About Guantanamo, of course there's torture. Under normal circumstances we can't defend torture, but this is a very special situation. I believe that the biggest mistakes made in Guantanamo is that they're not sure enough that they're actually terrorists. When it comes to terrorists, I wouldn't like to see any mercy shown. Do whatever it takes to get the information you know they have. But they should be better at sorting who's a terrorist and who's not.

[Leonie]

That post makes you seem very ignorant and hypocritical, not to mention a Western double-standard bastard. Just thought I'd let you know.

"Torture is bad! (Unless we decide they're special circumstances - after all, we don't even know if they're guilty, let's torture!)"

"Sure, we put people in prisons for rape and assault, but hey, it happens in prisons, big deal, tough luck for the terrorist, serves him right."

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ.

[Foeni]

I konw it seems weird, but the difference between using hard interogation with a normal criminal and a terrorist, is that with a normal criminal the crime has happened and that's it. Terrorists are normally members of a larger group and might therefor hold information on this group and planned attacks. If you can save 200 people's lifes by torturing a known terrorist (and as I've specified, we need to be a hell of a lot more sure than we are now), then so be it.

We all know that prisons aren't the most peaceful spots on earth. I'm not defending that, I'm merely stating a fact. What I wrote may have sounded wrong (pardon my English). They shouldn't be sentenced to jail instead of death because of what happens in most prisons. They should be sentenced to jail time because death isn't a penalty. But I can't feel any compassion with them being raped and beaten up.

Hope it clears up what I believe in and seems just a little less:

That post makes you seem very ignorant and hypocritical, not to mention a Western double-standard bastard. Just thought I'd let you know.

[deviljet88]

They'd better make sure he doesn't suicide in jail.

[Leonie]

He wouldn't: no 72 virgins if you commit suicide.

[Ranman]

After what he's about to go thru, I almost hope
he gets his 72 virgins.....Almost

[deviljet88]

You have to take someone out while you're suiciding for the virgins? Eww.

[Ranman]

What are you babling about? (the future mr, Moussaoui if you dont get laid soon)

[Leonie]

Yeah, committing suicide just to get yourself out of a bad situation doesn't count, it has to be an act of heroism of sorts.

[hasselbrad]

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ..."licking grape jelly out of Thunderdick's butt crack" is part of a comedy routine.
Com-e-dy.

Though, I wouldn't mind it if it he was forced to.

And, as for us being sick fucks, no one on this board conspired to fly airplanes full of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people.

[Jacoby]

Originally Posted by BrunoJA

Aussies don't count.

And yes, some people were. I certainly wasn't, but it was seen as some kind of shock to the American people.

Because America is a happy, fluffy place where nothing is wrong and everything runs smoothly.

No seriously, we rock. We totally won the Vietnam war, Columbus was generous during Thanksgiving with the Indians, and Nixon didn't have anything to do with Watergate. F'realz.


(No one was shocked.)

I agree with the sentence. He won't see it comin'.
I hope for his sake he's quite social, so he makes friends behind bars. It's really more of a social club than a prison. He'll be fine.

[Keira lover]

We should torture him for info, then torture him some more, then tie him in a chair in a room filled with family members of 9/11 victims, give them some bats, knives, and other weapons, and let them loose. Then show the body all over the world as a message to the islamofacists that there are no virgins, just this, and then throw the body into the east river. Fuck the ACLU and the UN (wich is really the United [Anti-American] Nations).

[Keira lover]

Originally Posted by Jacoby

Because America is a happy, fluffy place where nothing is wrong and everything runs smoothly.

No seriously, we rock. We totally won the Vietnam war, Columbus was generous during Thanksgiving with the Indians, and Nixon didn't have anything to do with Watergate. F'realz.


(No one was shocked.)

I agree with the sentence. He won't see it comin'.
I hope for his sake he's quite social, so he makes friends behind bars. It's really more of a social club than a prison. He'll be fine.

Nixon covered it up, he did not know in advance. the belief that Colombus was nice to Indians should be credited to our fucked up public schools, and Vietnam ended because of political pressure from the American-Hating, pacifistic, totally misinformed democrates and because Nixon knew we had to. Stop it, dems. JFK started Nam.

[Keira lover]

Originally Posted by Leonie

Yeah, committing suicide just to get yourself out of a bad situation doesn't count, it has to be an act of heroism of sorts.

heroism, u mean mass murder, I hope?

[Keira lover]

Originally Posted by Leonie

That post makes you seem very ignorant and hypocritical, not to mention a Western double-standard bastard. Just thought I'd let you know.

"Torture is bad! (Unless we decide they're special circumstances - after all, we don't even know if they're guilty, let's torture!)"

"Sure, we put people in prisons for rape and assault, but hey, it happens in prisons, big deal, tough luck for the terrorist, serves him right."

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ.

I got news. WE ARE AT WAR. FDR through dissenters in jail. Lincoln suspended habueas corpus, stifled the press, etc. Wilson detained dissenters. John Adams had the alien-sedition acts, Jefferson started a trade embargo with the entire world, need I go on. we are at war. we ca not treat these islamofacists like everyday criminals. We have 2 choices:

kill ourselves
or fight like hell for what we hold dear and sacred. We can win, or we can die. My friend, these are the times that try men's souls. So I ask you, all of you, would you rather die (or live under sharia law, in which, you'd be executed as an infidel) or would you rather fight. I know my answer, but I gove it to a great man to say for me:

'I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.' We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us: to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

now what is your choice: victory or death.

[Digital_Ice]

you have got to be kidding me.... not only do you bump three threads that were last posted in in 2004.... you then double post in one... and quadruple post in another??

do that again... and I will ban you.

[Leonie]

Originally Posted by Keira lover

heroism, u mean mass murder, I hope?

1. Don't take things out of context. I was explaining the Islamic 72 virgins arrangement. Obviously, to them, it is an act of heroism. Don't be stupid.

2. There is no excuse for torturing innocent people. Given the extreme accuracy with which you have carried out the war in Iraq so far, you'll have to forgive me if I don't trust your bad-guy-detector skills, especially not if you're methods of finding truth are carried out behind closed doors, without the rest of the Western world getting a look in. You are not God. Deal with it.

3. There are better ways of getting the truth out of someone than hurting them until they crack. Any confessions forged by pain are useless to us. Hurt a man enough and he will tell you whatever you want to hear. I know this would help the Bush administration greatly, since they'll claw at any straw they can find, but in the real world, the information is most likely useless. Ironically, they won't listen when someone is telling them "Oi, the weapons of mass destruction are there. No, there. That's it. Yeah, end of that road." Depriving people of company and light is a somewhat acceptable means in my opinion. That doesn't quite cross over into the realm of torture. Actively hurting them is despicable, and that includes depriving people of sleep for a prolonged stretch of time, which will drive any normal person insane.

4. By behaving in as low a way as the supposed terrorists, we lose any moral high ground we may claim to have. 9/11 killed an awful number of people, there's no denying that. It was horrible, uncalled for and so many other things. I wouldn't like to start counting the number of people that have died in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan so far, though. Normal people like you and me, caught in the crossfire. What gives us the right?

AND don't double post. If you were the last one to post and no one has responded, you may not post again. You are free to edit your previous post, though.