There is a new pope...

[acliff]

Originally Posted by bruman

why the hell shoud i read a book?
i also don't read books how to work with a pc, but i know lots of it, without to read a book
=> you don't need to read a book to understand stuff

but remember
that is MY opinion

What you do need is a book so that you understand punctuation, and correct grammar, but of course you know lots of that too.

[deviljet88]

Fuggle this, Shaft (or whoever the African cardinal was) should've won. Thankfully, Ratzinger is only a transitional pope... unless he surprises everyone and lives for another 30 years.

[Leonie]

Originally Posted by bruman

why the hell shoud i read a book?
i also don't read books how to work with a pc, but i know lots of it, without to read a book
=> you don't need to read a book to understand stuff

but remember
that is MY opinion

If your opinion is contrary to the obvious facts you could have known had you bothered to read a book on the topic, it might be wrong, don't you think?

[bruman]

i don't need to read books about the news
but hey, i see it so, other so .....
just what i think, others may have another opinion, but this one is mine

[Leonie]

Originally Posted by bruman

i don't need to read books about the news
but hey, i see it so, other so .....
just what i think, others may have another opinion, but this one is mine

Not a book on the news, but a book on WWII, the SS in specific. You'll find that not everyone who was part of the SS during the war joined out of fascist beliefs. Fact. Not an opinion.

You can think whatever you like, but that won't change the straight facts.

[deviljet88]

Since everyone's seemingly ripping right into bruman, there's a few "facts"... While you might argue that not EVERYONE joined the SS during the war out of fascist beliefs, this obviously means that SOME did join for their political beliefs. What's so wrong about some people thinking the latter about Ratzinger? So what if he deserted the army, he could've done it on the grounds that he knew he was fighting a losing war, bad conditions etc. Who's telling us that he was an unenthusiastic Nazi Youth anyway? Surely its his countrymen and supporters that are spreading these rumours about him.

And about bruman's grammar and spelling, lay off, not everyone lives/raised up with English as a main language.

[Flightfreak]

[Jacoby]

You're going to Hell, FlightFreak.

[Flightfreak]

sounds like fun :icon_bigg

[Digital_Ice]

*sobs*

my lovely thread.....

lol, anyway... i personally dont think it makes a difference who he is, what he has done or anything, as long as i is a good head of their church, the catholics like him and he does what makes them happiest.... not being religious myself i cant realy comment on their choice of pope. and anyway surley (surely, sureley or however its spelt) if they are supposed to get led by god into the choice then their god must have some use for him, and think he would make a good pope???

[Foeni]

Originally Posted by Digital_Ice

lol, anyway... i personally dont think it makes a difference who he is, what he has done or anything, as long as i is a good head of their church,

What he has done in the past could mean a great deal, since a lot might not like the head of the catholic church being a former SS. A big issue for him to deal with, is the relations with other religions. The jews for instance. Would you as a jew have very much to do with a former nazi (if he was so)?

As several guys have already argued, a lot didn't join because they believed in the fascist beliefs. You got much greater opportunities when in the SS or the Nazi party.

[Liam]

Are you sure he was SS? I read that he was Hitler Youth, but that was an organisation far from the front line SS units. Note that at the time, joining the Hitler youth was a compulsory requirement for young German males.

[AureaMediocritas]

Originally Posted by Liam

Are you sure he was SS? I read that he was Hitler Youth, but that was an organisation far from the front line SS units. Note that at the time, joining the Hitler youth was a compulsory requirement for young German males.

Compulsory yet romantic. Just imagine the lovely aryan boys sitting around
the fireplace singing German songs. Love was in the air, and some indoctrination.
(Becoming a cleric afterwards, Ratzinger must have enjoyed that kind of "male
friendship" , so just leave his Nazi past alone )

[Foeni]

According to BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4445279.stm) he was Hitler Jugend and in some anti-aircraft unit. Someone on this thread said he was SS. If it was bruman, I shall withdraw what I said about Ratzinger and SS until I've found a source saying he was.

[Keyser_so_so]

I have a feeling that he was a shoo-in. The cardinals probably have their eye on some young gun, and need an old geezer to fill the void before the said young gun is old enough to be mature about it all.

So they all went for a safe one, by getting John Paul IIIs right-hand man to toddle about, being holy and shit, and then snuff it in a good 20, 30 years.

Either that, or they just decided that's who they wanted as a Pope, and appreciated the comfort in knowing it was John Paul III's right-hand man, and that he has the standard thinking for the job. I just hope there's someone a teensy bit more free on the whole condom, gay and stuff thing. Not that it affects me, being mostly Christian and all- it's just I'm sure a lot of horny young males who are Catholic will be wanting the right to use a connie! Or be gay, if they're that way inclined.

[AureaMediocritas]

Originally Posted by Keyser_so_so

I have a feeling that he was a shoo-in. The cardinals probably have their eye on some young gun, and need an old geezer to fill the void before the said young gun is old enough to be mature about it all.

So they all went for a safe one, by getting John Paul IIIs right-hand man to toddle about, being holy and shit, and then snuff it in a good 20, 30 years.

Either that, or they just decided that's who they wanted as a Pope, and appreciated the comfort in knowing it was John Paul III's right-hand man, and that he has the standard thinking for the job. I just hope there's someone a teensy bit more free on the whole condom, gay and stuff thing. Not that it affects me, being mostly Christian and all- it's just I'm sure a lot of horny young males who are Catholic will be wanting the right to use a connie! Or be gay, if they're that way inclined.

No offence but who is John Paul III ?

[acliff]

Originally Posted by deviljet88

Since everyone's seemingly ripping right into bruman, there's a few "facts"... While you might argue that not EVERYONE joined the SS during the war out of fascist beliefs, this obviously means that SOME did join for their political beliefs. What's so wrong about some people thinking the latter about Ratzinger? So what if he deserted the army, he could've done it on the grounds that he knew he was fighting a losing war, bad conditions etc. Who's telling us that he was an unenthusiastic Nazi Youth anyway? Surely its his countrymen and supporters that are spreading these rumours about him.

And about bruman's grammar and spelling, lay off, not everyone lives/raised up with English as a main language.

I wasn't raised up with english as a main language. Its a wonder what reading and education linked with said activity can do for a person eh? Making the point that he's a retard for saying that you don't need books.

Secondly, theres nothing inherently wrong about voicing an opinion about what the new Pope's beliefs are. But conversely, there isn't anything wrong about voicing a counter opinion, where we think Bruman is being an misfiring dickhead. You don't go about throwing accusations that the Pope is a nazi, without people saying that you're an unread less-than-illiterate simpleton, with opinions which frankly border on racism.

To think that he's a secret Nazi after all the years of loyal catholic service, after having been very good friends with the former pope John Paul II, who was Polish, and was persecuted by the very Country that Ratzinger 'fought' for... and then getting chosen as the next pope by the heads of the Catholic church is folly. Although of course, he may use his power to become the next Adolf Hitler... but he neither has the charisma, nor the support structure, so slightly unlikely I feel.

Third, it was compulsary for all young boys in Germany at the time to join the Hitler youth. If you didn't you were either a Jew and sent somewhere less pleasant, or you were taken to be brainwashed, and your parents pay the price, or go to the hitler youth, and get brainwashed.
The SS was a completely different organisation entirely, and Ratzinger didn't join that, he was drafted into an anti aircraft unit, which he defected from, upon which he was kept as a prisoner of war for quite some time.

[duckula]

My pope is better than yours.

[deviljet88]

Originally Posted by acliff

I wasn't raised up with english as a main language. Its a wonder what reading and education linked with said activity can do for a person eh? Making the point that he's a retard for saying that you don't need books.

Secondly, theres nothing inherently wrong about voicing an opinion about what the new Pope's beliefs are. But conversely, there isn't anything wrong about voicing a counter opinion, where we think Bruman is being an misfiring dickhead. You don't go about throwing accusations that the Pope is a nazi, without people saying that you're an unread less-than-illiterate simpleton, with opinions which frankly border on racism.

To think that he's a secret Nazi after all the years of loyal catholic service, after having been very good friends with the former pope John Paul II, who was Polish, and was persecuted by the very Country that Ratzinger 'fought' for... and then getting chosen as the next pope by the heads of the Catholic church is folly. Although of course, he may use his power to become the next Adolf Hitler... but he neither has the charisma, nor the support structure, so slightly unlikely I feel.

Third, it was compulsary for all young boys in Germany at the time to join the Hitler youth. If you didn't you were either a Jew and sent somewhere less pleasant, or you were taken to be brainwashed, and your parents pay the price, or go to the hitler youth, and get brainwashed.
The SS was a completely different organisation entirely, and Ratzinger didn't join that, he was drafted into an anti aircraft unit, which he defected from, upon which he was kept as a prisoner of war for quite some time.

What country are you in Cliff? And what country is Bruman in? My english is comprehensible mainly because I live in Australia. If my parents stayed in China, I'd be much worse than I am now in the language.
On the point of him being a secret Nazi, Hitler was a Catholic. So what if a Catholic man persecuted another country where John Paul the Catholic Pope was born? On another point what is loyal service, just the point of staying in the church? It has no connections to your political view. Last time I checked the Bible, the political scene wasn't a democracy.
And to your last point, as I said, he might have been forced to join the Hitler Youths, but then he could've enjoyed his time while there. Only the opinions of the Germans give us the "fact" that he was unenthusiastic and deserted the army out of disliking the cause (when there's a chance of him deserting out of sheer terror of defeat).

[Liam]

Maybe he did enjoy his time in the Hitler Youth. It was a group pretty much like the boy scouts, with a little bit of political indoctrination thrown in. Now for a boy of 7 or 8 years old, political indoctrination means precisely dick, but camping in the countryside, rock climbing, rafting, etc is a great adventure.

As for softening the Church's stance on homosexuality, contraception and abortion - it simply cannot be done, and the sooner people realise this the better. If the Church were to turn around to tomorrow and declare that homosexuality is A-OK, condoms are fantastic and hey, heres a coupon for 50% off your next abortion, it would be going back on 2000 years of teaching and doctrine. Now that would make the whole thing appear just a tad hippocritical, which isn't good for a religious organisation. I'd like to see changes made, yes - particularly with regard to the contraceptive debate - but I know that in the eyes of the Church hierarchy, it wont be happening in my lifetime, or my children's lifetime, for that matter.

What you have to remember is that the man is 78. Most European males around that age served in the war in a front line capacity. The Pope is German. You do the math. Serving in the German armed forces during WW2 does not make him a Nazi. I have had the pleasure of speaking to two German war veterans - one a Bf-109 pilot, the other a Stuka pilot - and both of them told me that not one man in their units joined because of political leanings. They were all there to serve their country during its time of need - exactly the same way many of our grandfathers did.

The bottom line is that anyone who served his country (with the exception of blokes from death squads, etc. I wouldn't normally have to say this but I can imagine some smart arse making a big deal of it) is deserving of the utmost respect. Try showing it.