The First Presidential Debate

[Kelsey]

Luckily I don't plan on getting HIV/AIDS when I move there.

[Mandy]

We know you, Kels. You're going to shag lots of natives without protection, aren't you?

[dave]

Originally Posted by Leonie

Puh-lease. The Bible is not the be all and end all of morals. Thinking you're better than other people because you are a Christian, however, I think goes right in against the call for a lack of self-importance in your very Bible. Jesus didn't think he was the hottest thing going around, so why do a group of his followers think they get to ride the superiority wagon?

Sorry, I'm not a Christian except in the belief that All Religions Are One. I'm a Baha'i' which is sort of a Moslem, though not really. The Baha'i's are the ones that the Moslems hang whenever they can. But I'm really more of a Pantheist. I believe that God is Everything and Much More. And Christianity is currently one of the gentler Religions, that hasn't always been true.

Originally Posted by Leonie

I'd be terrified if there were even the slightest odds she might become my president.

<snip> I was willing to give him a chance, but Sarah Palin... I'm sorry, no. I'm sure she's just like everyone, and that's wonderful, but it doesn't in any way make one a worthy vice-president. <snip>

As always, of course, politics just turns into picking the lesser evil.

As long as you vote.

Personally, from what the Democrats have accomplished in the last two years, and because the financial meltdown isn't really a meltdown at all but the Politicians are beating that drum for all it's worth, and those chickens go home to roost at President Carter's and President Clinton's house, I'll keep watching.

If those twits actually pass that "bailout" we should erect a fence around Washington DC just to keep them from escaping and polluting the gene pool.

[dave]

Originally Posted by Ashley

a couple thoughts:

No one is pro-abortion. Pro-choice and pro-abortion are two different things.

That is a Semantic Quibble that the pro-abortion people are using to hide the fact that they are in favor of abortions. You should not let them get away with using "politically correct" terminology to disguise their intentions. You are how you speak. There is nothing wrong with believing that women should be allowed to abort unwanted pregnancies. (unless you, yourself can't say that out loud. If you, yourself have to disguise what you are saying, then you are ashamed of it.) How would you describe a "hunter"? Pro-hunter & anti-hunter or would you say anti-hunter and pro-animal-slaughterer? You see how choosing/disguising your terminology is used to obfuscate the issue? It is clear that slaughtering animals feels bad when you say it, but pro-hunter describes someone far less derogatorily and gives an unfair advantage in any discussion. While I am pro-abortion, I am not pro-choice. Being male, there is no choice available to me. Do you believe that I am stupid enough to get someone pregnant and then leave the "choice" of what to do to her, alone. I'm not that stupid.

Originally Posted by Ashley

Also, Dave, I'm skeptical that Stalin killed more Jews than Hitler. I'd believe more people, but even then the numbers on how many people Stalin killed vary widely. The most popular theory is 20 million killed by Stalin and 11 million killed by Hitler in the concentration camps. If you have a link to the information please send it.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Stali...ws+Than+HitlerTrivial Google Search for "Stalin Killed More Jews Than Hitler It seems that The History Channel said that. They went on to say that Chairman Mao was much worse.

Stats from Erols.com It is trivial to say that Mao and Stalin killed more "people" than Hitler, but the numbers are staggering. The recent figures seem to be that Hitler killed about 5M while Stalin killed somewhere between 20M and 50M.

Are you pretending that there weren't more than 5M Jews in the 50M people that Stalin Killed? From what I've read, the Ukrainians were mostly Jewish and those were the people Stalin killed the most.

In any case, the few sites I've looked at seem to be saying that Hitler shouldn't be vilified because he wasn't as bad as these other guys. I don't believe that for one second. Evil is Evil, so I refuse to be dragged into this particular discussion. Do believe, that there are still more than 6M Jews in any random gathering of 50M Russians.

[Ashley]

Dave, are you a politician because you have a gift for twisting words.

I support a woman's right to CHOOSE what she can do with her body. Which would be pro-CHOICE. See, choose... choice.... see it? Your rambles about hunting and hunters are nonsense. That may work for Sarah Palin but it doesn't work for you... come to think of it, it doesn't work for her either.

And did you actually read the answer to the first link that your search went to? Quote from the first result from the link to a google search you provided:

"Expert: Sam Rutherford
Date: 5/11/2006
Subject: Jews under Stalin

Question
-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
Hi! In a program on History Channel was given the information, that more jews were killed by Stalin than by the Nazis. That's an info I never heard before and a rather astonishing one. Instead I have heard that the jews had a protected situation in Sovjet, that sovjet was the only country at that time where antisemitism was a crime. And that the jews had dominating position in Stalins terrormachine.
A mistake by History Channel?

Answer -
First of all, I love the way you spell sovjet. Are you Slavic, German?

I have never heard that Stalin killed more Jews than Hitler. I suspect it's a mistake.
Stalin is credited with around 15 million political murders, 13 million of which were in the terror famine (Robert Conquest's Harvest of Sorrow is a respected source on this). Victims of the terror famine were chiefly located in the Ukraine and the Kuban steppe. As the Ukraine was an area of relatively high Jewish population, it's reasonable to suppose that a lot of the victims were Jews.

Also one of the blood purges was against something called the Doctors' Plot. A lot of the doctors were Jews as were many other victims of the purges. I've never seen a breakdown of terror famine or purge victims by ethnicity, but I'd be very surprised if the Jewish victims totaled more than the 6 million figure commonly attributed to the Nazi Jewish genocide."

Originally Posted by Dave

In any case, the few sites I've looked at seem to be saying that Hitler shouldn't be vilified because he wasn't as bad as these other guys. I don't believe that for one second. Evil is Evil, so I refuse to be dragged into this particular discussion.

I'm not debating who's more evil with you. I didn't even start it to begin with, you did. I merely said I thought you were giving bad information.