Global Warming - Fact or Fiction?

[mongoose]

Originally Posted by KeiraIsFIT

but im not bothered about it cause i dont really care if Ice Caps are melting or anything like that

Good. Than you don't care if you will die very soon. Because it will be major climal changes , and many people will die.

[Katielondon]

Originally Posted by mongoose

Good. Than you don't care if you will die very soon. Because it will be major climal changes , and many people will die.

just like the ozone layer holes? everyone that lived there would die?,oh wait the didnt, its just overhyped scaremongering rubbish.

[hasselbrad]

Originally Posted by Flightfreak

oh wait there wasn't a ozone gap above London, oh wait check the figures of skin cancer in Australia were there is an ozone gap problem. Oh wait you are wrong.

Skin cancer figures would have nothing to do with the fact that Aussies spend a lot of time in the sun, and many eschew protection beyond a big floppy hat.
The gap in the ozone layer is actually over Antarctica, and scientists that are studying it say it's actually shrinking, so I doubt it is having as much effect on skin cancer rates as you might think.
Skin cancer rates have increased in England as well, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling, just that more people are going to the tanning beds more often.

[Leonie]

Fiction.

[KeiraIsFIT]

very soon?? they say the Earth will be screwed in a couple of hundred years

[dave]

Originally Posted by Flightfreak

As most of you know, I'm left wing
<snip> and on the front line if it comes to climate change debates.
<snip> I'm wondering if the people that took part in this debate before have changed their mind somewhat
<snip> Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis - Summary for Policymakers

<snip> The first results are published and are of course in line with what scientists say all over the world.

Thanks for the link. Did you read the report? Three points.
(1) That is the absolutely most "weasel worded" pseudo Scientific report I've ever read. (By that I mean that it has been edited by politicians. It says things in a way that nobody could disagree with them. I'll even agree with this report. Since we invented the automobile we have produced more carbon dioxide. And since we began using fertilizer we have released more nitrides. There! Feel Better? That's about as scientific as that report gets, and it covers all that up with 17 more pages of "Alice's Restaurant" graphs and "all kinds of interesting stuff" produced by Officer Obie...)
(2) The report states that 6 out of 8 things are at 50% probability and the other 2 are less than 66%. (Table SPM-2 on page 9.)
(3) The report states that within the next hundred years, the sea will rise somewhere between 4 and 8 inches, and the temperature will go up between 1 and a half to 3 degrees Celsius.

For the next two decades a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios. Even if the concentrations of all greenhouse gases and aerosols had been kept constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming of about 0.1°C per decade would be expected. {10.3, 10.7}

• Models used to date do not include uncertainties in climate-carbon cycle feedback nor do they include the full effects of changes in ice sheet flow, because a basis in published literature is lacking. The projections include a contribution due to increased ice flow from Greenland and Antarctica at the rates observed for 1993-2003, but these flow rates could increase or decrease in the future. For example, if this contribution were to grow linearly with global average temperature change, the upper ranges of sea level rise for SRES scenarios shown in Table SPM-3 would increase by 0.1 m to 0.2 m. Larger values cannot be excluded, but understanding of
these effects is too limited to assess their likelihood or provide a best estimate or an upper bound for sea level rise. {10.6}

Your temperature just went up more than that because you read this note. Back to the advice of Don Henley, Get Over It!

This is a political report. You, as one of the fine "smart" leaders of tomorrow should be able to read this report for what it is. These people are politicians. They want to use the United Nations to punish the developed countries by "guilt tripping" them back into the "horse & buggy era" of days gone by. You, as an educated leader of tomorrow should be smart enough to not waste even an additional hour of your valuable time to support these Political Hacks in their quest for money and power. You know better.

By Khalil Spencer (Submitted: 02/04/2007 9:04 am)
For an alternative view from Fred Singer, Prof. Emeritus of Environmental Science from U of Va.,, go here.

By Mike Jorgensen (Submitted: 02/05/2007 2:50 pm)
... Dr. Lindzen is certainly not alone, many courageous scientists are speakng out about the IPCC abomination and misleading, politically biased views. Here is yet another:

And there are many more.

[Katielondon]

Originally Posted by Flightfreak

oh wait there wasn't a ozone gap above London, oh wait check the figures of skin cancer in Australia were there is an ozone gap problem. Oh wait you are wrong.

oh wait your figures on global warming are highly blinkered,many people are sick and tired of all this green rubbish forced in thier faces all the time when manmade contribution isnt as high as organisations such as greenpeace make out, the whole issue quite frankly makes me yawn these days.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVF...ouse_data.html

[hasselbrad]

Originally Posted by Katielondon

oh wait your figures on global warming are highly blinkered,many people are sick and tired of all this green rubbish forced in thier faces all the time when manmade contribution isnt as high as organisations such as greenpeace make out, the whole issue quite frankly makes me yawn these days.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVF...ouse_data.html

Refreshing.

And...this just in! A former Canadian Defense Minister has unlocked the secret!
Oh, this is fucking rich.

[the 48th Ronin]

Allegre's second thoughts
The Deniers -- The National Post's series on scientists who buck the conventional wisdom on climate science
LAWRENCE SOLOMON, Financial Post
Published: Friday, March 02, 2007
Claude Allegre, one of France's leading socialists and among her most celebrated scientists, was among the first to sound the alarm about the dangers of global warming.
"By burning fossil fuels, man increased the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere which, for example, has raised the global mean temperature by half a degree in the last century," Dr. Allegre, a renowned geochemist, wrote 20 years ago in Cles pour la geologie.." Fifteen years ago, Dr. Allegre was among the 1500 prominent scientists who signed "World Scientists' Warning to Humanity," a highly publicized letter stressing that global warming's "potential risks are very great" and demanding a new caring ethic that recognizes the globe's fragility in order to stave off "spirals of environmental decline, poverty, and unrest, leading to social, economic and environmental collapse."
from
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...5-fc28f14da388

[Ranman]

You people still arguing over this
I'm gonna rent a hall, supply the booze
And let you all beat the crap out eachother

[Digital_Ice]

wtf? what a random 2yr thread bump

[Digital_Ice]

oh man... now he's deleted his posts... this thread looks random.

[rani]

It is correct that CO2 emissions is not the cause of global warming.

as far as i remember my nat. sci. subject in my grade school, it is caused by the thinning of the ozone layer. this layer absorbs the heat from the earth aside from it functions as screen for cancer causing ultraviolet rays of the sun.

CO2 emissions just destroy the the ozone layer as destructible as CFC, not warm the globe .

[x.keirafan.x]

I hate the thought of Global Warming and the fact that Earth our home planet is coming to an end because of it.
People please try to turn off your tv not standby tottally off electrisity and your mobiles when your not using them.
Please slow down the PROSSESS.

[Fiirdraak]

I was impressed by Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient Truth'. He lay down lots of statistics, causes and effects that have happened to the Earth during its existence. He stated that the changes have been drastically stronger during the past 50 or so years than in the entire history of the planet (as much as can be measured). In just 50 years population has multiplied from roughly 2-3 billion to over 6 billion people. Remember, that to get to the 2 billion took us thousands of years. Greenhouse effect is real. Industry pushes out tons and tons of CO2 plus many other cemicals that do hurt the climate and the atmosphere. Temperature measurements show from 1880 to this day that ten hottest years during this time period have all occured during the past fourteen years. Glaciers that are vital to the balance of Earth's climate systems are retreating which can be seen in before-and-after satellite photographs. This means that if the same rate of melting continues, most of the coastline cities will be drowned, such as New York, L.A. and so on. The sea level will rise at least 6 meters. Almost a thousand scientific articles that were reviewed tells that they either sided with the theory that global warming is in fact human-caused or did not comment on it. None of them declined the theory about human-caused effects.

Global warming is reality and it gets worse as we 'speak'. There is no question about its reliability. This fact is supported by the fact that some people who were dealt with White House's climate politics forged climate change documents to support growing industry with the cost of greenhouse effect and global warming. And why not? US's most financial income comes from coal-based industry and they are willing to take a stand for it until now some changes can be seen in the WH's climate politics. Other nations also have the same issues, US is not the only 'bad guy' even though majority (compared to other nations) of the CO2 pollution comes from US.

It is quite possible that these devastating natural disasters that have occured in the past few years (i.e. Hurricane Katrina) are nature's way to deal with the growing stress towards ecosystems that humans cause with their thoughtless actions. Every day areas the size of soccer fields are being cut down in the Amazonian rainforests to make room for cattle and cultivation. And since the soil in rainforests is very delicate, the forests cannot be re-planted because the soil cannot support it anymore. So the damage they do is permanent.

All in all, those people who say that climate change and global warming is not true are idiots, if you ask me. One doesn't have to be a scientist to see what effects we have to our surroundings, how we are becoming increasingly efficient in destroying our living environment. We are digging our own grave my dear friends.

[Hazzle]

Eurgh, not this Liberal bullshit again.

Ok, here's a quick history lesson for you all. The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated. Remember the Ice Age? How the hell do you think we ended up with oceans and land? Oh wait...the Earth heated up...

There's no arguing with the fact that the Earth's temperature is rising again. What can be argued is the ridiculous notion that it's man-made. Why do we seem to ignore the fact that the world existed before we did...and here's another tip...the temperature fluctuated then too.

QED. Now shut the fuck up and move onto your next conspiracy theory.

[shiva]

Originally Posted by Hazzle

Eurgh, not this Liberal bullshit again.

well said.
ann coulter isnt far off when she says liberals think humans have been nature's blight since the beginning of time. We have been around for over 4 million years, given you believe in evolution, which, if your a liberal, you probably do. Earth has gone through a lot of changes and Im not really grasping the severity of the statement "these are the hottest years recorded." how do we know that?
and just in case we are spiraling downward, why are we trying to create a huge movement to save an earth that is already "doomed." Shouldnt we be giving NASA some cash to figure out where to go when the entire earth combusts into a million pieces because someone didnt convert from a flush toilet to a dry toilet?

anyways its going to take more convincing and consensus among scientists for me to believe it.

[Scotsworth]

Clearly C02 emissions are causing Global Warming. I just completed my Geology class and we had a whole section on this. Yes, while the earth is naturally warming and cooling, the problem is that, recently (like since the industrial revolution), the earth has heated up much faster than normal. In fact, what normally took thousands of years has happened in 100. C02 is a greenhouse gas which helps keep the Earth warm (therefore life is sustainable). The sun gives off light and heat...without the greenhouse gases, the infared light (heat waves) would simply fly back out into space. With the increased C02 however, more heat is trapped, causing a global temperature rise. Consider the fact that the North Pole is losing more and more ice each year. Also, keep in mind that Mount Kilimanjaro has lost a significant amount of ice since 1920 (something like 80%) This is all evidence of Global Warming. Deny all you want, but you can't ignore the relation between the increased temperature in such a short time, coupled with the increased levels of C02 and Methane in our atmosphere.

[Leonie]

The Romans grew wine grapes on the British Isles.

During the Middle Ages, the Netherlands had a Mediterranean climate.

That was 500 years ago, and we've since seen times of harsh winters and colder climates, whereas it seems we're now slowly moving back towards what things were like in the Middle Ages. When people burnt lots and lots of wood, with the CO2 and all. (To stay on the topic of wine - there are now certain grapes that can grow into successful crops here.)

Moreover, scientists agree that the earth seems to warm up quite significantly right before an Ice Age. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what is in fact happening.

You can believe the theory you were taught, Scotsworth. I believe in the theory that mankind only account for a very small percentage (something like 2% if I remember correctly) of the total amount of global warming. That there might be an ice age coming, or that perhaps the increased heat has to do with the cycle of activity of the sun. There are multiple theories, and we can only guess.

In addition, I've always thought this quite curious:

The oceans absorb CO2.
Global warming melts ice.
North and South Pole ice turns into sea water.
Therefore, there is more ocean to absorb CO2, right? Right?!

Does this mean I won't try to reduce my carbon footprint? No.

But. I must say I find it strange that we are being hassled to use certain light bulbs here in the Netherlands, when the US can't even be bothered to stop driving those ridiculously humongous cars, or put any other measures in place.

[hasselbrad]

Thank you Leonie. Logically, you've put this thread to rest.
Jesus loves us all...but you're his favorite!

But. I must say I find it strange that we are being hassled to use certain light bulbs here in the Netherlands, when the US can't even be bothered to stop driving those ridiculously humongous cars, or put any other measures in place.

I'm with you there. I've never hit a woman in my life, but I really have to work to resist the urge to punch some of these Hummer driving soccer moms in their latte holes.