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-   -   V for Vendetta! (SPOILERS) (http://www.keiraknightley.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2375)

Jacoby 04-04-2006 04:45 PM

V for Vendetta! (SPOILERS)
 
Alright.

This movie is actually much larger than I ever would have expected. It's already on the top 250 at IMDB, but that might pan out eventually. Personally, I think it deserves to be up there.

But the point of this thread isn't to ask if you liked the movie or not. Instead I figured we could discuss some of the odditys to the movie. Things that no one is supposed to really understand, but can ask about.

First off. Do you think V was white? Do you think he was gay? They never reveal his identity because he's just supposed to be a symbol. Larkhill was supposedly a place where they heaped up non-whites and gays and minorities to test the disease and make a cure. I figure V to be white, mainly because the movie suggests that, so I figure he's probably homosexual.

I actually heard some ideas where people thought V was Veronica. But I don't think that's true.

Anyone actually read the graphic novel?

calereneau 04-04-2006 05:40 PM

I have it on my computer....I need to read it.

Jacoby 04-04-2006 06:13 PM

Send me the file...

calereneau 04-04-2006 07:30 PM

I'll do it the next time you're on AIM.

I don't think he was gay. And I do think he was white. But that's probably because I'm white. I thought his obvious feelings for natalie portman kinda proved that he was not gay...idk....great movie though.

Jacoby 04-04-2006 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calereneau
I'll do it the next time you're on AIM.

I don't think he was gay. And I do think he was white. But that's probably because I'm white. I thought his obvious feelings for natalie portman kinda proved that he was not gay...idk....great movie though.

Well it was supposed to be a father-figure kind of love. I guess the love affair thing was tacked on for the movie.

He seemed white in the movie. But then why would he have been in the medical testing?
I dunno, people have been debating that since it was printed.

calereneau 04-04-2006 07:58 PM

From what I've read of the comic, it's a lot more detailed and a lot different than the movie. We'll see how it turns out.

Rob The BLack Douglas 04-04-2006 09:42 PM

This is going to be a long post so bear with me.


Originally V For Vendetta was an anarchist look at what could happen to England as a result of Thacherism. At one point the conservatives actually proposed moving all the homosexuals into camps to protect the publics healty, this was during the beginning of the aids crisis.

V is white and male, and most believe that his character was a transsexual, there really is no indication that his character was gay. Though both are valid viewpoints.

The movie was too bright and shiny, there should of been garbage in the streets, food shortages, people without power for extended periods of time, the weather should of been toxic and nasty. Life is miserable for the regular folk.

Also there was a lot more survellance of the population, with camera's and static listening devices. The vans sweeping the neighborhoods were used to add an element of fear to the general population.

In the original Evey was not going to see the producer, she was actually out soliciting because she had no money or way to get more basic food items because of the shortages.

Also Evey may be a lesbian or at least bi-sexual, it's not really established.

The ending of the movie was the most problimatic part of the movie for me, V as an anarchist originally acted alone, he didn't desire to lead a revolution, he did want to show people that they could stand up for themselves, if a rebellion ensued all the better but that wasn't his point, he was enacting vengeance.

In the original after V dies, Evey dons the Guy Fawkes mask symbolizing that there will always be someone to don the mantle of one individual willing to do anything for what they believe in.

Swordsman 04-04-2006 10:25 PM

i read an article not to long ago about how V was supposed to be a tranny but the idea was just to wierd so V is a dude. i personally think V is a black guy because no white guy could be that cool. and they most definitley did have everything to clean but then again they changed the story around a lot so i just went along with it.

only one part of the movie really pissed me off and that was the fact that they showed his hands. when i read the book i was always thinking that V was just the mysterious guy that always spoke in a whisper and that he could be a robot or a chicken man or JJ from Good Times, and they showed his damn hands and just said "eh! he's not just an idea!" when...he's just supposed to be an idea

Rob The BLack Douglas 05-04-2006 04:25 AM

I've also heard people think that V was a hermaphrodite.

Also V was definately white. A white OLD dude at that.

Jacoby 05-04-2006 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman

only one part of the movie really pissed me off and that was the fact that they showed his hands. when i read the book i was always thinking that V was just the mysterious guy that always spoke in a whisper and that he could be a robot or a chicken man or JJ from Good Times, and they showed his damn hands and just said "eh! he's not just an idea!" when...he's just supposed to be an idea

Truth. I was arguing the fact on these other fora that there's no point in debating V's race/color/skin tone/epedermus hue/ skin pigment/sex/sexual preference or anything else because he was just a symbol, a personification of the rebellious attitude. FREEDOM! But then they said, "well yeah, obviously that's the point, but you can't not be curious." And my retort was, "well, no, clearly I am right because I used way bigger words."
Then I thought about the movie more and questioned the Larkhillness. But I thought they could have done better in the movie covering up his identity. I don't get why he had his gloves off when he was cooking the egg. If the butter splattered he could have burned his hands!!!

"Also V was definately white. A white OLD dude at that."

Why do you say that?

Rob The BLack Douglas 05-04-2006 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacoby

"Also V was definately white. A white OLD dude at that."

Why do you say that?


Because that is what Alan Moore wrote him as, he was revealed at the end of the graphic novel as an old white dude.

Jacoby 05-04-2006 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob The BLack Douglas
Because that is what Alan Moore wrote him as, he was revealed at the end of the graphic novel as an old white dude.

Uhh, I thought he didn't reveal V's identity at all. I saw a Moore quote somewhere saying that he was going to reveal V, but thought there was no need for it...


Meh.

Leonie 05-04-2006 09:35 PM

I think all they did by showing his hands is show what V has been through. It doesn't take away from the fact that he is an idea. The idea is that he is someone fighting for the freedom and revenge of many, many people who, regardless of what their faces looked like, all suffered. You can't tell if he's white or not, gay or not, or possibly even male or not from his burnt hands, can you? That's the genius of it - you give something away, but then that bit just makes you wonder more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob the black douglas
The movie was too bright and shiny, there should of been garbage in the streets, food shortages, people without power for extended periods of time, the weather should of been toxic and nasty. Life is miserable for the regular folk.

Isn't the whole point that the people are quiet and obedient because they are told that, while life within the quarantined area is liveable and possibly even nice, life outside is hell? Why on earth would they want to stay, would they listen to their silly government, if the life they had was hopeless? It's controlled and clean, but like houses that are too tidy, they are cold and emotionless.

That said, I haven't ever seen the graphic novel, and I'm thankful for that. I went to see the movie and thoroughly enjoyed it. It's one of those rare movies that seem to last only 15 minutes, yet over two hours have passed. It makes you think and it makes you doubt everything you believe in. It's awesome.

Swordsman 05-04-2006 11:06 PM

i just checked the back of my V For Vendetta and i didn't see anyone under dat mask! i actually wasn't dissapointed by the movie that much.

i just think that a white dude couldn't be that cool. a white guy that blows stuff up is just crazy, now a black dude is just badass.

and showing the hands just ruined the image i had of him

Jacoby 05-04-2006 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman
i just checked the back of my V For Vendetta and i didn't see anyone under dat mask! i actually wasn't dissapointed by the movie that much.

i just think that a white dude couldn't be that cool. a white guy that blows stuff up is just crazy, now a black dude is just badass.

and showing the hands just ruined the image i had of him

Well burnt pink hands could be anything.

Rob The BLack Douglas 05-04-2006 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacoby
Uhh, I thought he didn't reveal V's identity at all. I saw a Moore quote somewhere saying that he was going to reveal V, but thought there was no need for it...


Meh.


When Evey places him in the train she removes V's mask, you never learn his name or his story prior to the camp but he was drawn as an old white guy.




Isn't the whole point that the people are quiet and obedient because they are told that, while life within the quarantined area is liveable and possibly even nice, life outside is hell? Why on earth would they want to stay, would they listen to their silly government, if the life they had was hopeless? It's controlled and clean, but like houses that are too tidy, they are cold and emotionless.

Plausable, but life was suppose to be tough even in the city, people were suppose to be struggling as well, that never really came across in the movie, plus if the quarintine zone was so bad, a brief glimpse needed to be shown so one could understand why people were happy to be where they were struggling.
Even with the biological attacks one has no concept of the scale of the area that was affected. Headlines with rising death tolls are just numbers, no scope to judge them on.

Leonie 06-04-2006 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob The BLack Douglas
Plausable, but life was suppose to be tough even in the city, people were suppose to be struggling as well, that never really came across in the movie, plus if the quarintine zone was so bad, a brief glimpse needed to be shown so one could understand why people were happy to be where they were struggling.

Even with the biological attacks one has no concept of the scale of the area that was affected. Headlines with rising death tolls are just numbers, no scope to judge them on.

This is where BNT came in - people were shown the aftermath of this horrible virus, and believed it all without a doubt. That's the whole point of the movie, no one felt the need for a brief glimpse, they were a bunch of sheep. As for struggling, apparently butter was rare :icon_razz

Edit: Just wanted to add this little banner-thing I made for a blog entry of mine. It's got nothing to do with further discussion of the themes of the film, but anyway...:

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6986/vbanner36ih.jpg

Jacoby 06-04-2006 06:22 PM

Heh, I didn't know she took off the mask in the GN. At a comic forum they're arguing about the same thing, and no one seemed to mention that. Madness.

Awesome banner, Leonie. Do you care if I save it?

Leonie 06-04-2006 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacoby
Heh, I didn't know she took off the mask in the GN. At a comic forum they're arguing about the same thing, and no one seemed to mention that. Madness.

Awesome banner, Leonie. Do you care if I save it?

Not at all, I'm flattered :)

As for the mask - and this is just my interpretation - I think the fact that the whole town rocks up with Guy Fawkes masks is enough of a symbol to show that hope and the want for freedom live, though V does not. Moreover, hope and the want for freedom are more widespread than they ever were during V's life.

Evey agreed with V's fight for freedom, but not with the way he went about achieving it, so I think it's only suitable she does not just take on his mask. She isn't as bitter. As a matter of fact, I think it's her relative hopefulness that makes her the right person to take over the reigns. Now that BNT and the fascist government are out of the picture, someone with so much hate and violence in the very thread of their being wouldn't be the right person to lead the way. Evey's lack of such a past makes her a better symbol of hope for the future. With V's death, and the staying behind of the mask, a new future is possible, one where people will not have to hide their faces in order to stand up for what they believe in.

Evey's last few lines in the film, where she says V was her dad, her mum, her brother and everyone would have made no sense had she taken off the mask and shown his face to the world. Secondly, I'm not sure if I would have been able to keep my dinner down had she taken off the mask :P

Swordsman 06-04-2006 10:58 PM

i keep checkin' the end of V For Vendetta and i'm not readin' or seein' anything about this old white guy.


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