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AureaMediocritas
09-08-2004, 06:54 PM
A somehow clever physicist once said :
"I don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones."
What do YOU think ?
1. Is there a possibility of Third World War breaking out in the future or do you
believe that the current great powers -especially the U.S.- will prevent such
a wide-spread military conflict from causing the death of millions of people ?

2. If you believe WWIII might possibly happen sometimes in the future , will
it cause the ultimate elimination of mankind - considering the threat of weapons
of mass destruction - blown away by several "red" buttons being pushed ?

3. (quite a scary question)
What countries (continents,alliances and so on) , according to you , will
be the opponents ?

4. (and a stupid one to finish)
Will you be one of those who are going to watch the first explosions of the
hostilities that have just begun on TV ? :bricks:

Sarah
09-08-2004, 06:59 PM
...Interesting, but moving to General Discussion...

CFC
09-08-2004, 07:33 PM
A somehow clever physicist once said :
"I don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones."
What do YOU think ?
1. Is there a possibility of Third World War breaking out in the future or do you believe that the current great powers -especially the U.S.- will prevent such a wide-spread military conflict from causing the death of millions of people ?

There is always a possibility. The US will be invilved somehow.



2. If you believe WWIII might possibly happen sometimes in the future , will
it cause the ultimate elimination of mankind - considering the threat of weapons of mass destruction - blown away by several "red" buttons being pushed ?

Not the ultimate elimination, but the death count will be high.


3. (quite a scary question)
What countries (continents,alliances and so on) , according to you , will
be the opponents ?

America vs the EU maybe. Could be America vs the world. It seems like we are turning into the "bad guy".


4. (and a stupid one to finish)
Will you be one of those who are going to watch the first explosions of the
hostilities that have just begun on TV ? :bricks:

I might be even closer then that since I may be joining the military in a year.

frodo1511
09-08-2004, 08:28 PM
Here are my predictions:

1. There's always the possiblility of another World War, either tommorow, next year, or in a decade. Who knows.
2. Most likely. In my opinion, WWIII will be fought over either water, or machines against humanity.
3. It will be a "true" WWIII, with EVERYONE INVOLVED, in one way or another.
4. Of course not. I'll be busy playing Halo 2 in my newly-built bomb shelter.

Snoug
09-08-2004, 09:04 PM
hmm will there be a world war 3 :| hmm

Its possible but i dont think so.

I think there will be large wars but not to the point where it involves such a massive scale such as the world wars. I also think any country with mass destructive weapons will not use them.. They were used once and they saw the outcome and it achieved nothing. I Dont think the people who run the countries will use them again.

If it was left to the general public to decide lol well we'd all be gonners.

The us is already starting to clean up and hopefully will lead as a example for the other countries in the UN to do the right thing and start standing for something.

Im thinking the countries will develop a neutral peice and will pretty much stay out of each others buisness for the most part. But the world will always have the certain countries that will be the "Trouble makers" that will need to be taken care of.

Well my thoughts. :|

alby
10-08-2004, 12:13 AM
Possibly a war involving the People's Republic of China.

For all his genius, Einstein didn't treat his family very well.

Hazzle
10-08-2004, 12:41 AM
America vs the EU maybe. Could be America vs the world. It seems like we are turning into the "bad guy".

Well who'd us Brits fight for then? I actually suspect if America went into a major world war, England, Australia, Canada, and probably India would all side with America. Then let us not forget the Israelis...the Spanish have so far stood strongly by America...so I very much doubt it'd be like that.

Much more likely to be a typical world war involving a fair few nations over some scarce commodity or some tinpot dictators who get together to form a rabble...a la Franco, Mussolini and of course Hitler...thank GOD the Fascists were avowedly anti-Communist because had they got Stalin on side...we'd have been fucked.

As it happens I very much doubt we'll ever get to that stage. After 9/11 any potential threat like Iraq (which could have been an actual threat in the future) will be dealt with before it becomes a real danger...and thus I think with pre-emptive attacks being the order of the day...I doubt we'll ever get to the stage of a world war. Fact is, when all's said and done, for all their bitching none of America's opponents sent troops to help the Iraqis...and noone REALLY wants to challenge America's authority.

Thus I very much doubt there will ever be a true world-scale war...not to say there won't be wars, and possibly big ones...just not a massive world war.

AureaMediocritas
10-08-2004, 02:54 PM
Just one idea about " the U.S cleaning up in the world" ...
http://comnet.org/local/orgs/wilpf/listofwars.html
Still a lot of work to do , ay ?
( I should admit though that an American intervention in the Russia-Chechnya
conflict wouldn 't be clever geopolitically )

Oencross
10-08-2004, 07:25 PM
First of all, this should really be titled, World War Possibilities, because it has nothing to do with Albert Einstein. It's a very off-topic thread. Moving on though, chances are nuclear bombs will be out of the question for most "civil" or "fist world" countries. No one wants to annihilate an entire country because it'd cause the rest of the world to come down on that one country who set off a nuke first. Not to mention that any nuclear bomb would be thousands of times more volatile than the ones dropped on Japan. I really don't see it happening anytime soon. Terrorist bombings are all too common in countries outside of the United States. We finally got a taste and realized what the rest of the world has to deal with. It's horrible, but it's the way things happened and now we have to deal with it. WWIII is just not an option.

alby
11-08-2004, 12:09 AM
Just one idea about " the U.S cleaning up in the world" ...
http://comnet.org/local/orgs/wilpf/listofwars.html
Still a lot of work to do , ay ?
( I should admit though that an American intervention in the Russia-Chechnya
conflict wouldn 't be clever geopolitically )

The US isn't going to clean up the rest of the world and neither will any other country.

Hazzle
11-08-2004, 01:30 AM
First of all, this should really be titled, World War Possibilities, because it has nothing to do with Albert Einstein. It's a very off-topic thread.

The initial quote was an Einstein quote...interesting topic titles are nice to see...it's about bloody time some people stopped with the blatantly obvious unoriginal titles...I'm not going to change this title, as I'd like to encourage this sort of creativity...but on the other hand this does NOT mean I'm saying every thread has to have an original title (I'm not a post-title nazi :p)...just addressing this issue from a modship perspective.

Carry on...the discussion's facinating...good to see :)

frodo1511
11-08-2004, 01:48 AM
The initial quote was an Einstein quote...interesting topic titles are nice to see...it's about bloody time some people stopped with the blatantly obvious unoriginal titles...I'm not going to change this title, as I'd like to encourage this sort of creativity...but on the other hand this does NOT mean I'm saying every thread has to have an original title (I'm not a post-title nazi :p)...just addressing this issue from a modship perspective.

Carry on...the discussion's facinating...good to see :)


Only bad thing about topic titles are that someone could get confused about what they are going to read about. The title could have something to do with water, and have the thread speak about airplanes, or something to that matter.

Back on topic, I think that the next WW will deal immensly on Artificial Intelligence, either siding with or against humanity. Anyone see the Second Rennisance on The Animatrix?

Hazzle
11-08-2004, 02:25 AM
Only bad thing about topic titles are that someone could get confused about what they are going to read about. The title could have something to do with water, and have the thread speak about airplanes, or something to that matter.

I can see how people uninterested in science might get put off...but oh well...that'll teach people :p

I'm not editting the title...if another mod feels it needs it, go for it...<shrugs>. I think if you REALLY want to discuss thread titles, start a new thread for it under Wavefront Issues (although I doubt it needs it)...and let's keep this strictly on the topic at hand (yes I know I'm deviating with this, I'm just asking politely that we stop the off-topic discussion as it's starting to take a life of its own :D)

alby
11-08-2004, 06:28 AM
I find it rather amusing how a “militant pacifist” such as Einstein indirectly created the atomic bomb. (Einstein discovered the equivalence of mass and energy, and the scientific work based upon this relationship made the release of atomic energy possible.)

As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable. - Albert Einstein

AureaMediocritas
11-08-2004, 02:55 PM
I personally believe that it is probably beneficial when more than one country
possess really strong and scary weapons ( although,of course, it would be ideal if not one single country owned them) as this creates some kind of "balance" in diplomatic and geopolitical affairs...Otherwise , one chosen state would be tempted to abuse of its enormous power in order to dominate the rest of the world.
So, however inhumain our beloved Jossip "Staline" may appear , his idea of
developping such terrible bombs as well in 1949 was not that bad in my opinion.
The eternal "diplomatic difficulties" between the U.S. and Europe on the one
hand and the U.S.S.R on the other hand, generally referred to by "The Cold War", had already begun just after the end of WW II (in Europe, as the Jerries
eventually had to surrend on May 8 th 1945), so who knows what this "Cold
War" would have turned into if the Soviets had not created their own missiles?
Nowadays , we are lucky that most of the countries that possess such weapons are getting along well (Pakistan-India?) , are rather harmless (China?, the U.S.?) and politically stable (Russia?)...
I' m not sure whether this moves too far away from our discussion , but here
are other "amusing" details : the U.S did not only "import" jewish scientists
(undoubtedly not the most fervent admirers of the nazi-regime) in order to
compensate "their lack of geniuses" , but also some really nice nazi-"Arier"s :
the most famous example is of course Wernher von Braun involved in the
development of rockets in the 60 s. And , not dramatic but funny , the U.S.
decided just after the creation of the four German occupation zones ( three
of these being reunited later on into a "Bundesrepublik Deutschland") that
"Western Germany" needed an army to protect "themselves" against the "Reds" : they mainly recruted highly-ranked (former) "Wehrmacht (-> Nazi-army) officers who definitaley knew how to train the soldiers in the best way :) how nice !!

alby
12-08-2004, 01:55 AM
So, however inhumain our beloved Jossip "Staline" may appear, his idea of developping such terrible bombs as well in 1949 was not that bad in my opinion.

Inhumane is right. Stalin is considered to be one of the greatest mass murderers in human history.

frodo1511
12-08-2004, 02:02 AM
Inhumane is right. Stalin is considered to be one of the greatest mass murderers in human history.


Kinda like Hitler and the Nazi party, eh?

AureaMediocritas
12-08-2004, 02:52 PM
Kinda worse , it is believed that he is responsible for more deaths than Hitler ,
owing to the fact that his political police (1918-21 : Tcheka 1921-29 : GPU
1929-1946 : N.K.V.D 1946 : Split into M.G.B and M.V.D 1953 : M.G.B turns into
the "legendary" K.G.B) as well as the "Smersh" ( in WW II) deportated every
presumed "regime-hostile element" to the Gulag (the soviet concentration camps) or just shot them in a somehow quiet location :/
Moreover , he was a paranoid crazy little fucker...

Hazzle
12-08-2004, 04:54 PM
Kinda worse , it is believed that he is responsible for more deaths than Hitler ,
owing to the fact that his political police (1918-21 : Tcheka 1921-29 : GPU
1929-1946 : N.K.V.D 1946 : Split into M.G.B and M.V.D 1953 : M.G.B turns into
the "legendary" K.G.B) as well as the "Smersh" ( in WW II) deportated every
presumed "regime-hostile element" to the Gulag (the soviet concentration camps) or just shot them in a somehow quiet location :/
Moreover , he was a paranoid crazy little fucker...

Aye...common misconception that Hitler was worse than Stalin...it's bollocks...Stalin was by far the worst.

frodo1511
12-08-2004, 08:28 PM
Aye...common misconception that Hitler was worse than Stalin...it's bollocks...Stalin was by far the worst.


Hitler was a close second, and younger people still think he's the worst.
...maby because he was insane...

Hazzle
12-08-2004, 09:27 PM
Hitler was a close second, and younger people still think he's the worst.
...maby because he was insane...

Hitler wasn't half as evil as most of his underlings...Eichmann and Himmler...now THOSE two were evil.

frodo1511
12-08-2004, 09:40 PM
Ok, let's put it this way: The only evil person out of the four mentioned that you hear about in school is Hitler. We talked about Stalin for maby a class period in language, but never talked about Eichmann or Himmler, but I do agree that all were meanies.

Hazzle
12-08-2004, 10:24 PM
Ok, let's put it this way: The only evil person out of the four mentioned that you hear about in school is Hitler. We talked about Stalin for maby a class period in language, but never talked about Eichmann or Himmler, but I do agree that all were meanies.

EXACTLY...and that's a major problem I have with most history education...most people don't hear about the Stalin properly...and CERTAINLY don't understand how evil Eichmann and Himmler were. I did A-level history, focussed on Nazi Germany...so I picked up a little...plus I read a biography of Hitler written by Ian Kershaw (a legend in the field of The Third Reich) and it actually caused me to reevaluate certain prejudices I had...which is something, thankfully, our teacher encouraged us to do. He told us everyone comes into Nazi history with a prejudiced view...and his jobe was to help us see the period and objectively analyse it...

Ahh well...off topic...WWIII wasn't it?

frodo1511
12-08-2004, 10:38 PM
EXACTLY...and that's a major problem I have with most history education...most people don't hear about the Stalin properly...and CERTAINLY don't understand how evil Eichmann and Himmler were. I did A-level history, focussed on Nazi Germany...so I picked up a little...plus I read a biography of Hitler written by Ian Kershaw (a legend in the field of The Third Reich) and it actually caused me to reevaluate certain prejudices I had...which is something, thankfully, our teacher encouraged us to do. He told us everyone comes into Nazi history with a prejudiced view...and his jobe was to help us see the period and objectively analyse it...

Ahh well...off topic...WWIII wasn't it?


Ok, WWIII will occur on election day in the US.

Hazz, I'm taking 20th Century world history this year for school, and I'll tell the teach to talk about Eichmann and Himmler. But our language teacher (of all people) did spend an hour talking about Lenin, Stallin, and Trotsky, so I know what your talking about. Also, have you read "Mein Kamf"? (sorry if I spelled it wrong). It's one of the best books I've ever read, a great resource into Hitler's mind.

Hazzle
12-08-2004, 10:50 PM
I have read Mein Kampf (or a translation of it, obviously, as I don't speak German) and I disagree that it's a good book...but yes, it does provide an insight into some of the madder aspects of his brain...I'd suggest the Kershaw biography if you can find it...it's in two parts, Nemesis and Hubris...that's brilliant.

As for WWIII...I'm going to start it unless we get back on topic ;)

barrington
12-08-2004, 10:50 PM
All I need to know soviet politics I learned from a few crazy pigs and farmer George.

alby
13-08-2004, 01:15 AM
All I need to know soviet politics I learned from a few crazy pigs and farmer George.

Haha. Animal Farm -- nice.

Hazzle
13-08-2004, 01:41 AM
Haha. Animal Farm -- nice.

Ooooh...someone's been reading some high brow stuff. Who's a clever boy then? None of the rest managed to spot the literary reference...thanks for enlightening me...I'm such a cretin, I can barely handle the "Where's Wally?" books.

frodo1511
13-08-2004, 01:55 AM
Haha. Animal Farm -- nice.


No wonder it sounded familiar. I read that book for language last year, but paid zero attention to it. Still managed to ace the final, mostly bs A LOT(my english teacher has hypoglycemia, so we get away with lots of stuff in that class)

alby
13-08-2004, 02:35 AM
I forgot to add that it's strange how Einstein never received security clearance to work on the Manhattan Project even though he was the one that warned President Roosevelt about the importance of developing atomic weapons before the Nazis did. Einstein wasn't the only left-leaning scientist of his day. Yet in the end, Einstein regretted taking that step, saying he would have done nothing had he known the Nazis would not succeed in their efforts to acquire atomic weapons.

No wonder it sounded familiar. I read that book for language last year, but paid zero attention to it. Still managed to ace the final, mostly bs A LOT(my english teacher has hypoglycemia, so we get away with lots of stuff in that class)

George Orwell was great. I liked 1984 much better than Animal Farm though. I think there was a cartoon made way back in the day.

MC117
13-08-2004, 03:03 AM
3. (quite a scary question)
What countries (continents,alliances and so on) , according to you , will
be the opponents ?

I think USA+Canada+Russia vs Rest of the world?

4. (and a stupid one to finish)
Will you be one of those who are going to watch the first explosions of the
hostilities that have just begun on TV ?

nah, i'll be out there fighting :)

AureaMediocritas
13-08-2004, 03:16 PM
The general opinion about Staline being less "evil" than Hitler might be due to
the fact that at least in the end of WW II , the Soviets were the allies of
the U.S., the Britons (+ all the soldiers fighting in their armies , but being originary from european countries invaded by the Huns ) , and it was undoubtedly their military effort from 1942-45 that helped to prevent Adolf
the one and only to become the master of all Europe... Despite the Cold War,
Soviet Russia involved in WW II still has a somehow pleasing "image" nowadays,and Staline being its leader during that time period might have caused the wrong impression that "he had some minor vices" without being as despicable as his austrian "pendant" -> Allied propaganda used to call him "Uncle Jo".
Most people tend to forget that Nazi-Germany and the U.S.S.R -strong ideologic antagonists- did get along really well : they enjoyed sharing Poland in October 1939... bastards...
Anyway, back to topic...
In my opinion , it may be China that will possibly be responsible for an upcoming WW III : it is a country that "booms" economically and progressively adopts cultural elements of western societies . Nevertheless , the current
communist regime shall not be underestimated , as hardliners , especially in
the "Red Army" , appear willing to turn China into a even more important
power in the military sense. So , maybe after a "purging" of the current
regime leaders , the new dignitaries might be tempted to show the world
their strength , which could , for example , result in an attempt of invading
Taiwan... Events such as this one could represent the starting point of
unsolvable geopolitical crises turning into war...

Hazzle
13-08-2004, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the history lesson...pity this discussion's SUPPOSED to be about a future war...not history...can we all just quit the discussions of Hitler v Stalin? Y'know what...I'll even start a new thread (http://www.kkwavefront.org/forums/showthread.php?p=11730#post11730) for you lot to go mad on...just don't spam this one...thanks :)

acliff
13-08-2004, 06:13 PM
I forgot to add that it's strange how Einstein never received security clearance to work on the Manhattan Project even though he was the one that warned President Roosevelt about the importance of developing atomic weapons before the Nazis did. Einstein wasn't the only left-leaning scientist of his day. Yet in the end, Einstein regretted taking that step, saying he would have done nothing had he known the Nazis would not succeed in their efforts to acquire atomic weapons.



George Orwell was great. I liked 1984 much better than Animal Farm though. I think there was a cartoon made way back in the day.

Einstein was kept out of the loop, mainly as he refused to help develop nuclear power for destructive purposes. And military projects don't give security clearance to those not actually working on or looking over the project.

And Haz, speak for yourself :P I got the Animal Farm reference, we could start going into obscure Lord of the Flies references, but we'll worry about that when we get there.

Hazzle
13-08-2004, 08:32 PM
And Haz, speak for yourself :P I got the Animal Farm reference, we could start going into obscure Lord of the Flies references, but we'll worry about that when we get there.

Oh Cliff...you're so clever...and what with those killer good looks...will you marry me?

I've NEVER read Animal Farm...or 1984...I didn't do my open study on them for GCSE English...nope...so the clever references would be beyond me :D

Lord of the Flies? What's that, some sort of comic book about a man who's half man half fly? Like The Fly? Coooool.

Einstein was avowedly pacifistic, no?

AureaMediocritas
13-08-2004, 08:41 PM
Einstein renounced German citizenship in 1896 : he was definitely pacifistic !!
(improvements have been made since 1945 though).
What a nice conclusion...

Waronthevirus
17-08-2004, 12:10 AM
Hmmm war topics: well if there was going to be a worldwar i look into the book of nostradamus, i did and i study his work, and there probably is going to be another great war against the 3rd anti-christ, i also read that most of the european countries will be taken over by the schyte and the star (muslims). But hey, what do i know. :icon_conf

Hazzle
17-08-2004, 08:37 PM
Uh oh...he said the "N" word...cue lots of abuse about superstition and bullshit from Baz and co? :p

Liam
18-08-2004, 08:37 PM
I have read Mein Kampf (or a translation of it, obviously, as I don't speak German) and I disagree that it's a good book...but yes, it does provide an insight into some of the madder aspects of his brain...I'd suggest the Kershaw biography if you can find it...it's in two parts, Nemesis and Hubris...that's brilliant.

As for WWIII...I'm going to start it unless we get back on topic ;)

Its been said that Mein Kampf has more mistakes in it than correct sentences, and I'd agree.
The first 3 chapters about Hitler's childhood and early adulthood are interesting enough, but then it dissolves into a morass of sycophantic nothing. Terrible.

The 'Essential Stalin' is a much better read. While Stalin could give a speech like Hitler could, the man could write.

Hazzle
18-08-2004, 10:21 PM
Read the Kershaw biography Liam, if you can find it...it fucking rules...hubris is about his life until 1936...nemesis is about the holocaust and war (36-45)...you should be able to find it :)

Hubris especially for me is a very good read...makes you rethink your views of the man.

AureaMediocritas
21-08-2004, 04:42 PM
Do most of the adherents of a totalitarian state serve on purpose or purposely serve ? (I should have written "adherents" anyway...)

Hazzle
22-08-2004, 02:06 AM
WAR...what is it good for?

Starting topics and actually STICKING to them...c'mon people...back to the topic at hand.

AureaMediocritas
24-08-2004, 05:21 PM
I apologize , i ll never do it again...