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doubly
31-07-2004, 02:24 AM
Many Americans think of France as rabidly anti-American. What do Britons think of France's resentment to US/Great Britain world policy (i.e. Iraq)? Could the French be attempting a rise in power to act as a "mediator and bridge between America and Islam"? (See Times' Charles Krauthammer's article "Why the French Act Isn't Funny Anymore.") I am especially interested in feedback from Britons and any Frenchmen who wish to reply.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 10:23 AM
The French are just pussies.

Moe
31-07-2004, 10:54 AM
About France
The following advice for American travellers going to France was
compiled from information provided by the US State
Department, the CIA, the US Chamber of Commerce, the Food and Drug
Administration, the Centers for Disease Control
and some very expensive spy satellites that the French don't know about.
It is intended as a guide for American travellers
only.

General Overview
France is a medium-sized foreign country situated in the continent of
Europe. It is an important member of the world
community, though not nearly as important as it thinks. It is bounded by
Germany, Spain, Switzerland and some smaller
nations of no particular importance and with not very good shopping.
France is a very old country with many treasures, such as the Louvre and
Eurodisney. Among its contributions to western
civilization are champagne, Camembert cheese and the guillotine.
Although France likes to think of itself as a modern nation,
air conditioning is little used and it is next to impossible for
Americans to get decent Mexican food. One continuing
exasperation for American visitors is that local people insist on
speaking in French, though many will speak English if shouted
at. Watch your money at all times.

The People
France has a population of 56 million people. 52 million of these drink
and smoke (the other 4 million are small children). All
French people drive like lunatics, are dangerously oversexed, and have
no concept of standing patiently in a queue. The
French people are in general gloomy, temperamental, proud, arrogant,
aloof and undisciplined; those are their good points.
Most French citizens are Roman Catholic, though you would hardly guess
it from their behaviour. Many people are
communists. Men sometimes have girls' names like Marie or Michel, and
they kiss each other when they meet. American
travellers are advised to travel in groups and wear baseball caps and
colourful trousers for easier recognition.

Safety
In general, France is a safe destination, although travellers must be
aware that from time to time it is invaded by Germany.
Traditionally, the French surrender immediately and, apart from a
temporary shortage of Scotch whisky and increased
difficulty in getting baseball scores and stock market prices, life for
the American visitor generally goes on much as before. A
tunnel connecting France to Britain beneath the English channel has been
opened in recent years to make it easier for the
French government to flee to London during future German invasions.

History
France historical figures are Louis XIV, the Huguenots, Joan of Arc,
Jacques Cousteau and Charles de Gaulle, who was
President for many years and is now an airport.

Government
The French form of government is democratic but noisy Elections are held
more or less continuously and always result in a
draw. The French love administration so for government purposes the
country is divided into regions, departments, districts,
municipalities, towns, communes, villages, cafes, and telephone kiosks.
Each of these has its own government and elections.
Parliament consists of two chambers, the Upper and Lower, though
confusingly they are both on the ground floor, and whose
members are either Gaullists or Communists, neither of whom should be
trusted by the traveller. Parliament's principal
occupation is setting off atomic bombs in the south Pacific and acting
indignant and surprised when other countries complain.
According to the most current American state department intelligence,
the President is now someone named Jacques. Further
information is not available at this time.

Culture
The French pride themselves on their culture, though it is not easy to
see why. All their music sounds the same and they have
never made a movie that you would want to watch for anything but the
nude scenes.

Cuisine
Let's face it, no matter how much garlic you put on it, a snail is just
a slug with a shell on its back. Croissants on the other
hand, are excellent, although it is impossible for most Americans to
pronounce this word. In general, travellers are advised to
stick to cheeseburgers.

Economy
France has a large and diversified economy, second only to Germany's in
Europe, which is surprising because the French
hardly work at all. If they are not spending four hours dawdling over
lunch, they are on strike and blocking the roads with
their trucks and tractors. France's principal exports, in order of
importance to the economy, are wine, nuclear weapons,
perfume, guided missiles, champagne, guns, grenade launchers, land
mines, tanks, attack aircraft, miscellaneous armaments
and cheese.

Public Holidays
France has more holidays than any other nation in the world. Among its
361 national holidays are: 197 Saints' days, 37
National Liberation Days, 16 Declaration of Republic Days, 54 Return of
Charles de Gaulle in triumph as if he won the war
single-handed Days, 18 Napolean sent into Exile Days,17 Napolean Called
Back from Exile Days, and 2 "France is Great
and the Rest of the World is Rubbish" Days.

Conclusion
France enjoys a rich history, a picturesque and varied landscape, and a
temperate climate. In short, it would be a very nice
country if it was not inhabited by French people. The best thing that
can be said for France is that it is not Germany.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 11:05 AM
Moe deserves a cookie for that...made my day...split my sides laughing :D

Sarah
31-07-2004, 11:15 AM
I like France. My clothing has French words on today, I have no idea what it means, its just a nice top.

I thought they were cool to stay out of the war (thats right, yeah?). And that 'French Fries' to 'Freedom Fries' by Americans WAS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 11:17 AM
I like France. My clothing has French words on today, I have no idea what it means, its just a nice top.

I like France...it's just the French I can't stand.

I thought they were cool to stay out of the war (thats right, yeah?).

Sooooo wong. War is the only way to stop war, and trust me, Iraq will NOT be seen as another Vietnam, it'll be seen as a necessary stepping stone to the path of peace for the middle east...mark my words...your children will see peace in that region, and if that's not worth a war, I don't know what is. Sorry lass, but yer wrong. Plus the French stayed out because they're pussies, as per usual. They just sit there while they get invaded and then expect us to bail them out...didn't hear them moan about the English and Americans when we liberated them from the Germans, did we? They forget so quickly...arrogant little shits.

And that 'French Fries' to 'Freedom Fries' by Americans WAS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was a bit, wasn't it?

deviljet88
31-07-2004, 11:30 AM
France's emblem sucks. That's some amusing stuff Moe lol.

Sarah
31-07-2004, 11:31 AM
Sooooo wong. War is the only way to stop war, and trust me, Iraq will NOT be seen as another Vietnam, it'll be seen as a necessary stepping stone to the path of peace for the middle east...mark my words...your children will see peace in that region, and if that's not worth a war, I don't know what is. Sorry lass, but yer wrong. Plus the French stayed out because they're pussies, as per usual. They just sit there while they get invaded and then expect us to bail them out...didn't hear them moan about the English and Americans when we liberated them from the Germans, did we? They forget so quickly...arrogant little shits.



Thanks Haz. I thought I was wrong anyway, thats why I asked. But I don't like the way people compare stuff now to stuff in WWI AND WWII. I mean, this time, America had countries backing them, and then if one country doesn't want anything do to with it, they throw a hissy fit and suddenly they hate that country just because they won't kiss their arse, then everyone gets patriotic and starts changing the name of food. It just gets on my nerves. I hate all the hail america stuff.

Moe
31-07-2004, 01:22 PM
To be honest, I did not come up with that text. It was sent to me via email a few years back, and I decided to save it, because it is hilarious.

Hazzle: The French helped the US fight against England, back in the beginning. A lot of Americans seem to have forgotten that.
I also hate the American attitude of "the French are all pussies because they didn't invade Iraq". Actually, I don't think they are pussies, they stood up to tremendous outside pressure and did what they believed was right. They showed strenght and determination there.
While you're at it, you might as well label Germany a bunch of pussies, because they didn't participate either.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 02:10 PM
Thanks Haz. I thought I was wrong anyway, thats why I asked. But I don't like the way people compare stuff now to stuff in WWI AND WWII. I mean, this time, America had countries backing them

The ironic thing is they didn't. That's why they didn't get a UN resolution backing the war.

and then if one country doesn't want anything do to with it, they throw a hissy fit and suddenly they hate that country just because they won't kiss their arse

No my objection was the French being all "noble" disguising their true intentions...oh...and manipulating every former French colony to vote against the Americans..the ONLY reason it was voted down by the security council was the French influence. They derailed it, and in fact were ENTIRELY responsible for the illegal nature of the war...oops.

then everyone gets patriotic and starts changing the name of food. It just gets on my nerves. I hate all the hail america stuff.

I have issues with that too, that doesn't mean the French were right to oppose the war...for reasons of GREED (which of course they're entitled to do) and then be pussies about it and pretend they did it for noble reasons...EVERYONE with half a brain knows the French backed out because of THEIR oil interests, which lied with Saddam staying in power. I mean so did Russia's, so no surprise they opposed America, and the Chinese ALWAYS oppose America. It was Russia, China and the French, together with a couple of their colonies that were temporary members of the security council that voted down the resolution.

To be honest, I did not come up with that text. It was sent to me via email a few years back, and I decided to save it, because it is hilarious.

And quite true.

Hazzle: The French helped the US fight against England, back in the beginning. A lot of Americans seem to have forgotten that.

Hehe...I'm actually quick to remind them of that.

I also hate the American attitude of "the French are all pussies because they didn't invade Iraq". Actually, I don't think they are pussies, they stood up to tremendous outside pressure and did what they believed was right. They showed strenght and determination there.
While you're at it, you might as well label Germany a bunch of pussies, because they didn't participate either.

I'm not American. I'm English, and I still think they're pussies. They actually DIDN'T stand up to ANY outside pressure as half the world agreed with them...those who stood up and showed strength and stood up for what they believed in was the US and us...noone else...and the Germans have been pacifists since WWII, for obvious reasons. They opposed the first gulf war, the war in Kosovo...you could drive tanks into Berlin and they'd take it, because they were responsible for two world wars...and the spectre still looms over their country (which really is a shame). They're still pussies though.

I actually hate the way it's so fucking easy to take the French side and oppose the war, and SO much harder to support it (because war is NEVER good, just a necessary evil, and to accept that takes a lot of guts and soul searching)...and half those who oppose the war are cretinous little dullards who couldn't string together a sentence arguing their case. I know as I stopped at least half a dozen anti-war protestors on their way to a protest and engaged them...and beat them in a debate single handedly.

MarkOB
31-07-2004, 02:44 PM
I think France and America have been a little childish in their attitudes to each other on foreign policy. France can not act as a mediator between anyone, because they've got too many interests to satisfy.

I believe America needs France in its war on terror. But that's only because all democracies are needed in the war on terror.

If a country opposed war in Iraq because they wanted to just play games with the Americans, that is unacceptable. If they had good reasons, that's a little more acceptable.

But despite the noise made by France, Germany, Russia, China, and all the rest of them over Iraq, it's important to remember this point:

Not one nation fought alongside Saddam Hussein against the coalition last year. It's very important for America to remember how much of a considerably easy deal they got.

ChocolateMoose
31-07-2004, 02:49 PM
Hahahaha, Moe that is excellent :D

I like France, its such a nice country so beautiful, but as that guide says, its ruined by the people who live there. The French, in my experience are so rude and arrogant.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 03:17 PM
I think France and America have been a little childish in their attitudes to each other on foreign policy. France can not act as a mediator between anyone, because they've got too many interests to satisfy.

I believe America needs France in its war on terror. But that's only because all democracies are needed in the war on terror.

If a country opposed war in Iraq because they wanted to just play games with the Americans, that is unacceptable. If they had good reasons, that's a little more acceptable.

But despite the noise made by France, Germany, Russia, China, and all the rest of them over Iraq, it's important to remember this point:

Not one nation fought alongside Saddam Hussein against the coalition last year. It's very important for America to remember how much of a considerably easy deal they got.

You make a fair point, but whilst they opposed the war they weren't exactly going to risk the fallout of fighting alongside Saddam, were they? Let's face it, they'd still have lost and whoever had fought on the side of Terror would've been in one BIG pile of shit.

Moe
31-07-2004, 03:21 PM
a..nd the Germans have been pacifists since WWII, for obvious reasons. They opposed the first gulf war, the war in Kosovo...you could drive tanks into Berlin and they'd take it, because they were responsible for two world wars...and the spectre still looms over their country (which really is a shame). They're still pussies though.

Did I mention that I am German? And yeah, the two world wars are precisely the reason why we are very hesitant to send troops to foreign countries. The last time that happened (not counting Kosovo and the small force we sent to Afghanistan), we had the world at war for six years, around 200 million people died, and two nuclear weapons were dropped. So yeah, the German government is very careful about these matters nowadays.
And you are also right about the spectre. In fact, severe limitations are still in place regarding the German military. The size of the submarines and tanks' barrels are limited for instance. We are also not allowed to own nuclear weapons, although we may launch NATO ones, IIRC.

But AFAIK Germany did send a few troops to Kosovo. And even though during the first gulf war (actually that one is the second, the Iran/Iraq war counts as number one) we didn't really send troops, a lot of coordination and command stuff was done from Allied Forces HQ in Heidelberg, Germany. Medevacs were flown and treated there as well. And we sent the ships that cleaned up the huge mess all those oil spills created in the gulf. I wouldn't exactly call Germans pacifists, just very very cautios.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 03:27 PM
Fair enough...might I say overly cautious? :D

doubly
31-07-2004, 06:24 PM
So what does the majority of Britons, Germans, or whatever your nationality think about France in general?

AKIRA
31-07-2004, 06:56 PM
They just sit there while they get invaded and then expect us to bail them out...didn't hear them moan about the English and Americans when we liberated them from the Germans, did we? They forget so quickly...arrogant little shits.

nah its just they dont hate us because we helped them out from the start unlike america who just joined in when the germans fucked around with them. how long did i take america to join in the war 2 and a half years wasnt it? but atleast that was an improvement to the 3 years it taken them in ww1. i think the french just dont like americans because they think there all powerful.

woops hang on wasnt this about the french. well for once i cant think of anythin to say about the french, normaly i can go on for ages about them but my heads gone blank. i'll just say if the french carry on as they are now sooner or later they wont have any alies left then next time they get in trouble they will get fucked(pardon the language and bad spelling and stuff)

Jacoby
31-07-2004, 10:51 PM
I thought they were cool to stay out of the war (thats right, yeah?). And that 'French Fries' to 'Freedom Fries' by Americans WAS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparentely there's confusion. I've never EVER heard an American call french fries 'freedom fries'. Not that you would care or anything.

Pinkfairy
01-08-2004, 12:13 AM
The french are more idealistic than anything. Their president probably decided that it was in their interest (yeah, right) to stay out of the war specially since the U.S. didn't have the U.N. support.
Not that we need the little bitches...
I shouldn't be bashing the french. They were only doing what they thought was best for them.

Kelsey
01-08-2004, 02:42 AM
No one here calls fries Freedom Fries. They're 'french fries' or 'fries' or whatever. You people are making a big deal out of nothing. What's pathetic is the way people seem to jump to conclusions about Americans.

And I don't know anyone here who hates the French either. Everyone I've talked to and heard from respect the fact that they didn't want to join the war....who cares? Hating the French is just another easy stereotype people can slap on Americans.

deviljet88
01-08-2004, 03:35 AM
People around the world for some reason or another despise the French, so its not a stereotype people slap on Americans. I mean personally I don't know them, but they do seem to speak funny...

Hazzle
01-08-2004, 03:49 AM
People around the world for some reason or another despise the French, so its not a stereotype people slap on Americans. I mean personally I don't know them, but they do seem to speak funny...

And a cookie for Jet for putting it the best..."they do seem to speak funny"...classic :icon_lol:

Kelsey
01-08-2004, 03:50 AM
Just an easy thing to accuse us of then, as we seem to be accused of pretty everything, especially here. The Americans aren't even the ones who are notorious for disliking the French. When I was in Europe, I went out of my way to talk to a lot of people, and the funny thing is, I found the French people I met much more nice and interesting than the English people I met.

Hazzle
01-08-2004, 03:52 AM
Just an easy thing to accuse us of then, as we seem to be accused of pretty everything, especially here. The Americans aren't even the ones who are notorious for disliking the French. When I was in Europe, I went out of my way to talk to a lot of people, and the funny thing is, I found the French people I met much more nice and interesting than the English people I met.

Yeah, well, we don't like Americans...or French people...or Germans...heck we don't like you if you ain't English...:p

Kelsey
01-08-2004, 03:53 AM
Too bad. That's your loss.

Hazzle
01-08-2004, 03:54 AM
Meh...nahh...English people be the bestest...we hates all the restest.

alby
01-08-2004, 06:39 AM
I like France. My clothing has French words on today, I have no idea what it means, its just a nice top.

I thought they were cool to stay out of the war (thats right, yeah?). And that 'French Fries' to 'Freedom Fries' by Americans WAS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd rather have a Freedom Drink. :kidding: But seriously, no one uses that term except for the uber conservative Rush Limbaugh and his closest associates.

I also hate the American attitude of "the French are all pussies because they didn't invade Iraq". Actually, I don't think they are pussies, they stood up to tremendous outside pressure and did what they believed was right. They showed strenght and determination there.

You also forgot the famous French inferiority complex.

MedullaPancreas
01-08-2004, 06:54 AM
WHO WANTS TO FREEDOM KISS?!!!!!!!!!!!111 (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/krauthammer/article/0,9565,661053,00.html)

Moe
01-08-2004, 02:45 PM
You also forgot the famous French inferiority complex.
Of course, you have a point there.

doubly
01-08-2004, 07:38 PM
nah its just they dont hate us because we helped them out from the start unlike america who just joined in when the germans fucked around with them. how long did i take america to join in the war 2 and a half years wasnt it? but atleast that was an improvement to the 3 years it taken them in ww1. i think the french just dont like americans because they think there all powerful.


Akira, surely you can't be serious.

It was the Japanese invasion of US territory at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii that brought us into World War Two in late 1942. Why, then would the US help liberate Europe when our problem was with the Japenese? One could argue that since Japan was an Axis power, America had a resonsibility to help defeeat the Axis powers in Europe. But by the same token, we Americans never hear of the great French troop presence in the Phillipines or anywhere in the Atlantic after Hitler's regime was toppled.

Moe
01-08-2004, 07:59 PM
Because if France and England had fallen, the Axis would have ruled all of Europe, which would not have been particularly good news for the rest of the world.

Hazzle
01-08-2004, 11:24 PM
Oh, and let's not forget the small matter of Hitler (stupidly) declaring war on the US...clever move that one.

AureaMediocritas
02-08-2004, 01:53 PM
Why not giving my opinion ? The topic is particularly interesting...
First of all , I want to point out that I am completely neutral as far as these
"animosities" between the French and the Anglo-Saxons (a word used very often
in French TV to speak about the Brits,maybe deliberately stressing their "barbarian" origin?) are concerned. Personally , I believe that they are rather funny for an observerwho is not directly involved....

France in itself still has one big problem : it lost a big war against an enemy
that has always been a huge rival : the jerries (crowds) or if you prefer the
french (pejorative) words : les chleus , les boches , les Fritz ... All in all, they
initially were really tired of starting a new war that would cost once again
millions of lives for a cause not always that clear , so they tried everything to
save peace. Nevertheless , Adolf the one and only didn't let them great chances and the war broke out. Being ruled by the "front populaire" , a socialist-communist government generally speaking, feeling really secure behind the "famous" Ligne Maginot build to hold the barbarians off , they
turned out to be sissies , so they just wanted to stop war as fast as possible.
Hmmm I could go on , but I should stop...
Anyway, a funny fact about France is that it had the most collaborators from
1940-44 and afterwards the most "r├ęsistants" a few months before the allies arrived... All in all , it lost its honour , which can still be felt nowadays ,
although General Charles de Gaulle tried to prevent this. Traditionnally , the
French are "autosuffisants" , they just do not want to develop relationships
with other countries that could compromise their own interests , which also
causes their extremely self-centered behaviour...
Everyday froggies , nevertheless, do not really care about the national foreign politics (they are really bad in geography [maybe worse than the yanks]) , they just aim to earn their lives, so the apparent anti-americain
attitude (if it exists to the extent indicated before by hazzle I think) is just
limited to an elite ( and perhaps to FN [Front National] voters ;) )

As far as the yanks are concerned, they just made a mistake by voting George Bush... As an evident prove, Michael Moore's documentaries (or
propaganda if you prefer) should be enough... I do not like him personally ,
he has political visions that diverge from mine but what he managed to find out is certainly worth reflecting upon. By starting that useless war against
Irak (Afghanistan could maybe result understandable because Osama's buddies were a bit too nice to him) , they caused a vague of anti-americainism themselves in Europe : most people , informed quite well
by the media, eventually believe that it was all about the "black gold" and
they despise the americain arrogance allowing the US to play "world-police"
( also known as [colonial?] imperialsm). So the Frenchies are not the only ones opposed to the (anglo-)americain projects... There are really many
wars going on in the world the US (and of course the French) do not give
a damn about -> so please do not pretend (none of you did so far) the whole war aimed to bring "peace and freedom" to Iraq !
Let the :fencing: begin ! En garde !