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Renegade
28-07-2004, 12:50 AM
Time to elect America's president for the next 4 years. Some of you Britons, Aussies, and even fellow Americans might be thinking "I don't give a sh*t about America! The hell with them and their f*ckin country!" Well nonetheless, an election is at hand and voting is essential. Who'd you vote for?

Democrat John Kerry:
Healthcare: $1000 cut on family premiums; Erase health disparities that persist along racial and economic lines, Ensure people with HIV and AIDS are medically treated, End discrimination against disabled and mentally ill, Ensure equal treatment for mentally ill in our health system.
National Security: Form global alliances; Transform military to better address threats of terrorism; Ensure the military is sufficiently equipped to meet strategic missions; Liberate US from it's dependance of middleast oil
Economy/Occupations: Cut taxes for businesses that create jobs in America instead of moving them overseas; Middle-class taxes will be cut; 99% of Americans and businesses will receive a tax cut


Republican George Bush
Healthcare:Signed legislation to make prescription drug coverage available to 40million seniors and those with disabilities through Medicare;
Access to health care has been extended to 3 million additional Americans;The trade bill provides a tax credit to help workers who lose their jobs due to international trade obtain health insurance coverage.
National Security:Proposed $379.9 billion for the Department of Defense, increasing defense spending by $15.3 billion; Military pay increases from 2 to 6.25%, targeted by rank and years of service; Committed to developing effective missile defenses based on the best available technologies to defend the US and its allies; Formed a Terrorist Threat Integration Center analyze all-source information related to terrorism; Aircraft, Vehicles, and Weaponry are well-funded
Economy/Occupations: "Jobs & Growth" Bill provided 1.4million with new jobs;Proposed more than $500 million for his "Jobs for the 21st Century" initiative to help prepare workers to take advantage of the better skilled, higher-paying jobs of the future.


Ofcourse there is much more things to take into account but this is just an idea of what their plans are for America's future. VOTE.

KRev
28-07-2004, 03:01 AM
Does it ever matter what they say they're going to do?

They're all liars.

Richard
28-07-2004, 03:25 AM
From the reading, both of them have good plans for the future. But I'm still too young to vote, and my parents could care less. So I guess it doesn't matter to me. What is the minimum age for which a person can vote? I haven't been paying attention to Rock The Vote, at all.

If I had to choose, it would be Kerry. Reasons unknown, I want a change.

Renegade
28-07-2004, 03:39 AM
Eek! :icon_surp The Vice President is Dick not Don...but who cares...he never did much anyway. He's Heart Attack-prone if I'm not mistaken.

spitinthacoola
28-07-2004, 08:27 AM
If I could vote I would have to go with someone besides those two. Man Bush is stupid and Kerry seems so fake to me, but then again he is running for President. I'd go for whoever is not Bush or Kerry.

alby
28-07-2004, 08:32 AM
The US presidential election is about picking the better of lesser men.



Does it ever matter what they say they're going to do?

They're all liars.

Amen to that.

MarkOB
28-07-2004, 11:37 AM
As a Conservative I would probably vote for Bush no matter what. But I am very concerned sometimes by the arrogance his administration has shown in foreign affairs. But I would probably be equally concerned by the weakness that a Kerry administration might show.

The fact is that the terrorists WILL NOT calm down and start to reconcile their differences if Kerry is elected. America could pull her troops and influence out of Saudi Arabia, give the Palestinians their own state and do whatever else al-Qaeda wants.

The fact remains that the terrorists hate what the west is.

Whilst that is the case I would prefer the leader of the free world to be a man who does not shirk in the face of adversity.

Sarah
28-07-2004, 11:48 AM
I'm not American, and I'm sure I could say some nasty things, but I won't. Now, if I were over there, I would vote for anyone except Bush.

MarkOB
28-07-2004, 11:54 AM
I'm not American, and I'm sure I could say some nasty things, but I won't. Now, if I were over there, I would vote for anyone except Bush.


I suppose this happens to most presidents in their re-election campaign. If they pursue one or two unpopular policies in their first term, you get some of the middle-ground starting something of a 'Anyone But _____' campaign.

Sarah
28-07-2004, 11:59 AM
Then again, its not for me to say. I don't know enough about your elections to judge, so I say vote for whoever you want.

hasselbrad
28-07-2004, 12:12 PM
I always love when the ask folks from the "Anybody But Bush" crowd a question. It's fun to watch them stammer and stutter through an answer that contains more "likes" and "ums" than two Valley Girls with a twelve-pack and a handful of barbituates.

Hazzle
28-07-2004, 04:21 PM
I always love when the ask folks from the "Anybody But Bush" crowd a question. It's fun to watch them stammer and stutter through an answer that contains more "likes" and "ums" than two Valley Girls with a twelve-pack and a handful of barbituates.

Sadly most of them can't reason their argument.

Bush has been the right man at the right time...I didn't like him when he was elected byt like Blair both have earnt my respect by how they handled Iraq. What Mark said was true...can't pacify terrorists...war is the only way to stop war.

IeatDogs
28-07-2004, 05:56 PM
I always love when the ask folks from the "Anybody But Bush" crowd a question. It's fun to watch them stammer and stutter through an answer that contains more "likes" and "ums" than two Valley Girls with a twelve-pack and a handful of barbituates.
This has nothing to do with politics but 32? Don't you think you're a little too old for a Keira Knightley forum. :icon_err:

hasselbrad
28-07-2004, 06:02 PM
I wandered in looking for a filmography, and stayed for the stimulating conversation. That's the beauty of internet bulletin boards.
Would it make you feel better if I lied and said I was 18?

Dyce_Blue
28-07-2004, 08:16 PM
This upcoming election will be the first in which I will vote. I can relate to Bush because he was the governor of Texas (my state) before he became president. He really reached out the hispanic voters when he was here by becoming fluent in Spanish (as I am). I really think Bush has locked up the Hispanic vote by concentrating his efforts toward them. He will do fine in Texas, as well as the republican states. Keep in mind, though, that he didn't win by a landslide in 2000. This one may be even closer. Plus, let's face it...there won't be another Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, or Roosevelt for awhile. I don't think there is a candidate alive now with the possibility of becoming one of the great presidents.

Kelsey
29-07-2004, 02:28 AM
As you can see my Rock the Vote avatar. Doesn't matter who you vote for, just vote. I really wish I was able to vote in this election, but I won't be 18 (I have to wait until March). Though the thought of either of them in the White House for the next four years doesn't thrill me, if I could vote, it would be for Bush. I dispise Kerry. I would vote for....Tom Green....before I voted for Kerry.

Spire
29-07-2004, 02:39 AM
I'm voting Bush because I'm conservative.

alby
29-07-2004, 06:33 AM
I'm not American, and I'm sure I could say some nasty things, but I won't. Now, if I were over there, I would vote for anyone except Bush.

Even Pat Buchanan? I'd sure hope not.

DefyingGravity
29-07-2004, 01:24 PM
Dyce_Blue, Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant.

Sadly most of them can't reason their argument.

Bush has been the right man at the right time...I didn't like him when he was elected byt like Blair both have earnt my respect by how they handled Iraq. What Mark said was true...can't pacify terrorists...war is the only way to stop war.

What Bush was trying to do is stop TERRORISM--there's a difference. Fighting terrorism with terrorism is pointless.

I don't like Bush. Trying to AMEND the Constitution, even when he was overruled by the Supreme Court, he won't give up. There is separation of church and state, and he doesn't seem to know what that means. For the first time, he is going to amend the Constitution by DENYING rights to Americans. Spitting in the face of the Constitution is Bush's idea of patriotism(I really don't think Kerry is any better... they both voted for the Patriot Act, ugh).

If I was old enough to vote.... I don't know who I would vote for, if at all. I think they're all the same.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39078

WorldNetDaily is not a liberal news site -- it's a conservative news site. Even political conservatives are sounding the alarm with regards to some of Bush's scary policies. This policy of screening the population for "mental illness" and requiring the administration of drugs has overtones of the old Soviet Russia, when political opponents of premiers could be declared "mentally ill" and forcibly given drugs to keep them sedated and kept in mental facilities. Hitler did the same thing. A great way to get rid of political opponents. Do we want our government to require us to take drugs against our will? That's what something like this would lead to.

I sure hope Kerry doesn't support this. :icon_err:

Mags
29-07-2004, 08:30 PM
Weeeee... (You ready for this Hazzle?)

My vote (I'm old enough to make it, and I WILL make it) is going to the Kerry/Edwards campaign. Now is a time when I fear that our country needs change more than anything, but that's not why I support these candidates. I believe that ours is a country that does have a great responsibility and a huge reputation to live up to in our role to the rest of the world. We have been considered a superpower for decades, but I feel that often that power has been squandered and misspent. We are a country that controls much of what affects the rest of the world, and I sincerely believe that we have not used that power wisely or effectively for quite a long time.

My reasons for not voting for Bush are many, but even aside from the changes I think our country needs to make, I don't agree with his politics. I am very much a democrat. I do believe in a larger government if it finally means that we are able to support, with ease, EVERY ONE of our citizens. Bush may say leave no child behind, but they're being left behind everyday, as are American citizens of all ages. Our social services do so much less than they need to that they have become huge drains on the economy instead of boosting it in a way they would were they ever to become successful. Institutions like Welfare, Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security are grossly underfunded and do not provide enough for the millions of people who require their services. It is incredibily difficult to maintain any semblance of a good life on what the current minimum wage is, requiring people making it to often work two or more jobs, forcing them to leave their children in substandard day care because it is all they can afford. We do need changes in this country. Changes in the way we treat each and every American living here.

As for basic civil rights...well, there are so many arguments. In my opinion, it doesn't matter if a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman, or a man loves a woman. It is in NO way the government's responsibility to dictate which love is the acceptable love. It is not the government's responsibility to tell me what I should do with my body, including a pregnancy residing in it. It is the responsibility of the government to ensure that EACH and every citizen is treated equally, without exception.

I don't have a problem with the wealthy. If you were industrious enough to make your fortune, or lucky enough to be born knowing your finances would always be sound, I'm not going to dislike you on those grounds. But I do not believe that you should be favoured among the rest of the country with tax breaks, incentives, relaxed standards. Every American shoudl be held to the same standards, and every American should have available to him or her the resources they need to make something of themselves...including a college education. If a student wants to, he should NEVER not be able to go to school because he doesn't have enough money. I find that unacceptable. I understand that money for social welfare has to come from somewhere, but once our social programs become effective, they will stimulate the economy with a better workforce and more money being pumped in.

I do feel that a strong military is necessary, and that our tax dollars should fund that as well, but I don't ever believe that our armed forces should be used as a tool in a personal agenda. I don't really want to get into my thoughts on the War in Iraq, but I don't believe our troops were sent there for good reasons. The war may have had a few desired effects, but I'm not sure that they equal the prices paid by American soldiers and their families.

What I believe this country needs most is responsibility, sound judgment, strong character, and a desire to service this country to the best of one's ability. That is what is required by a position like that of President, the greatest position in our government. The position that allows one to do the very most for their country. It may be a total cliche to say it, but JFK had it right. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." I feel Bush has his own personal agenda, but that John Kerry more sincerely wants to better this country. And that's why he gets my vote.

Hazzle
29-07-2004, 11:18 PM
It's a shame Kerry is such an uncharismatic ponce then, isn't it?

A LARGE part of the president's role is to be charismatic and motivate and command the support of the nation. Kerry's as dull as watching paint dry. Edwards, now he's charisma on legs, and given some experience of being Kerry's running mate (and a loser, I all but guarantee it) this time, he could well be a forerunner to be the Democrat candidate next time...and if he manages it then THERE is president material for you.

Renegade
29-07-2004, 11:32 PM
I think Kerry will be speaking tonight at the Democratic National Convention. Don't know what time but it'll be on CBS and other news channels.

Kelsey
30-07-2004, 05:40 AM
Is anyone watching the Democratic Convention? Kerry bothers me - a lot. I can't stand him. The only person I like in that whole campaign is Elizabeth Edwards, because she knows how to *act* like she can relate to the average person (which is the best we're gonna get in that crowd). And the Edwards' kids are really cute.
"I'm reporting for duty": I wonder how long it took all of them to think that one up. Through John Edwards speech last night, and through parts of Kerry's, I just felt like I was being spoken down to, which I hate more than anything. Grrr. Politicians. I can't wait until I run for President.

havoc
30-07-2004, 05:47 AM
I don't know. I don't really follow US Politics, but I don't agree with what Bush has done so far, so lets let the other bloke have a stab at it, aye??

I'll vote for Dr. Don Brash in NZ election next year, for what it's worth :)

hasselbrad
30-07-2004, 12:30 PM
Sorry, but if you think expanding the federal government is going to lead to everyone being taken care of, you've got another thing coming. The ever expanding federal government is the reason this country is in trouble. Outsourcing was the hot topic for a while. And why do you think it's even an issue? Not because these evil corporations want to send jobs overseas. In many instances, it's their only option. Judging from your socialist attitudes about making sure everyone gets taken care of, you're one of these people who thinks that anyone making a good salary is just lucky and that any company turning a profit needs to be investigated, but working hard and striving to get ahead on ones own merit are principles this country were founded on. Now, these principles have been replaced by letting the federal government take care of you; your education, your healthcare, your retirement. And, oh yeah, suing. There's another reason I wouldn't vote for Kerry/Edwards. Trial lawyer. ***please note, the part in italics are to be read as if said by Jack Sparrow, after Will says "you cheated"*** Pirate...Trial Lawyer. No difference. Except that pirates, on the whole seemed to be a nicer bunch. :icon_err:
Having said all of this, you're probably seething thinking "bloody Republican", and you'd be wrong. I am a Libertarian. I don't agree with all of Bush's policies either, but I have seen enough of John Kerry to know that the only position he's willing to take is the one that will get him elected.
I'm for shrinking the federal government.
I'm for the decriminalization of drugs. (and all consensual crimes)
I'm for doing away with the federal income tax. (unconstitutional)
I'm for the first amendment...and the second. (remarkable how many are for one, but not the other)
I support a woman's right to choose...I just don't think I should have to pay for it. Unless, of course it truly is my responsibility.
Oh no...not that evil word responsibility. That's what it boils down to. There are too many people who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own situation. It's always someone else's fault. And this is why expanding the federal government to take care of these people will never work. The more the government does...the more the people will take.

Hazzle
30-07-2004, 04:21 PM
HEY...enough of the lawyer bashing. I mean I'm supporting Bush but at least being a lawyer means Edwards is smarter than Bush...I seriously have no idea how people get through life without a law degree...

Oh wait...you hire lawyers...seems we're the oil that keeps your lives working...

Seriously without law, without lawyers...chaos would follow. It's all good and well having the engineers and doctors, but without law the whole system of employment, the whole system of government etc would all collapse.

That, in fact, is a very good reason TO back the Kerry/Edwards camp.

Oh, and they should talk down to you...you're dumb Americans :D

hasselbrad
30-07-2004, 07:16 PM
Edwards got rich suing people. I've got no beef with lawyers in general, it's the predatory scumbags who have the stones to walk into court and sue Mc Donalds because some douchebag has butterfingers.

Kelsey
30-07-2004, 07:25 PM
Oh, and they should talk down to you...you're dumb Americans :D
Haz, can you please quit with the dumb/pissy/whatever else you've said Americans? It's not even funny, even with the little smily at the end.

Mags
31-07-2004, 04:38 AM
Edwards got rich suing people. I've got no beef with lawyers in general, it's the predatory scumbags who have the stones to walk into court and sue Mc Donalds because some douchebag has butterfingers.

I'm actually pretty sure he became rich from marrying his current wife, heiress to the Heinz ketchup fortune.

I understand that people need to rely on themselves. I don't think that government funding will solve all of America's problems. But I do think that there are many Americans who were born without the resources to fulfill that ever-so-political American dream. I do think that as Americans they deserve the best this country can offer. And I refuse to believe that taking measures such as cutting down the costs of prescription drugs or allowing seniors to order them from Canada is a step in the wrong direction for America. I'm not sure I would have felt this way even 3 months ago, but I work for an HMO now (yes, I know that must just be hilarious, I think my mom and I are the only Democrats there) but in that environment, I've seen how futile our current attempts to make prescriptions and healthcare affordable are. More needs to be done, and privatizing social security won't do it. These are Americans, and it's America's job to take care of them.

As for believing in the first, but not the second amendment, I support both. Keep and bear arms you want, you know, with a well-regulated militia. If you want a gun, that's fine. But I do believe in gun control. If you ask me, Bowling For Columbine was a whole lot of Michael Moore loving himself, but he got the statistics right. In countries with gun control, there are fewer gun fatalaties. Go figure.

As for the right to sue, that's also guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. Article VII describes guidlines for suits. If a fatass in McDonald's wants to sue a corporation for misleading them, that's they're right. And if a judgement is made in their favour, then I think it's a good thing the suit was made. For some people it's become the only way to protect themselves as consumers.

As for choice, I believe it is mine and mine alone.

With regard to responsibility, I do believe that's what we need most. I'm actually pretty sure I said that in my post as well. But I don't see how a kid born in Harlem is responsible for those circumstances. I think it's the responsibility of America to make sure that kid has a fair shot.

In reference to John Kerry's charisma, I'll agree that is he lacking. And I understand that charisma can be essential to leadership. But to be honest (and I'm actually very likely to be biased) I don't find George W. charismatic just because he can relate to people from Texas (except me evidentally). I DO think there is something to be said for useful intelligence, and I think it IS required to run a country well.

alby
31-07-2004, 05:03 AM
I'm actually pretty sure he became rich from marrying his current wife, heiress to the Heinz ketchup fortune.

John Kerry was already wealthy to begin with. He acquired several billions of dollars through his marriage to Theresa Heinz to become the wealthiest man in the US government.

John Edwards was a trial lawyer before he scored his upset victory over incumbent Republican Senator Lauch Faircloth. He made his millions from negligent lawsuits. Some people believe the phrase ambulance chaser is a better way to describe him.

According to Jay Leno, Edwards and Cheney would make great running mates. The former made his living chasing ambulances and the latter spent most of his life in ambulances.

Too tired to post my thoughts on John Kerry. That'll come later.

frontier219
31-07-2004, 07:38 AM
This has nothing to do with politics but 32? Don't you think you're a little too old for a Keira Knightley forum. :icon_err:

I'm 14 - am I too young? Will you still like Keira when you're 32?

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 10:42 AM
What Mags said about lawsuits...sometimes...nay...it IS, ALWAYS, the only effective way for consumers to avoid being trodden on. Corporations fear only one thing...big fat lawsuits...it's what stops them fucking each and every one of you over for a profit, because, let's face it, that's what businesses do.

If you knew about how companies decide whether to recall a defective product you'd know lawyers are what keep your arses from being blown up in defective cars ;)

As for gun regulation...again...what Mags said...it's the one thing that makes the US look more stupid than anything else...in this fucking day and age a country which not only ALLOWS people to hold guns, but actually gives them a RIGHT to...that's just so backwards...a modern democracy should have gun control.

But where Mags lets herself down is all that hippie feel sorry for the poor people bullshit. A kid born in Harlem CAN make it, odds are most of them are too fucking lazy to make the most of the tiny opportunities they got...I mean if you have to struggle to make it in this world, when you DO make it it's all the sweeter, and if you don't, boo fucking hoo...a kid in Harlem still has it fucking easier than some kid in the third world. This is where I agree with Hassel...the more you pander to these pussies who forget all about the concept of survival of the fittest, and how if you've got it hard, you just have to deal with it and stop whining like little bitches, the more society will keep doling out the cash. I agree with public healthcare, but you go on about "a fair shot"...they DO have a fair shot...they're just too pussy to take the struggle that goes with it.

I actually find all this talk about "a fair shot" rather patronising to those who are poor myself...I think it's stereotypical middle class arrogance. Let them work their way out of poverty, like most of our grandparents or greatgrandparents had to...I mean people'll say "People like Bill Gates' kids have it easy"...sure...they will...but he didn't. Somewhere, someone in that family had to work their ARSES off. I don't buy that poverty, or racial prejudice is an excuse to fail in life, and I hear both used far too fucking often for my liking.

So whilst Mags ALMOST persuaded me to change my mind...not quite. Then again I ain't a yank and I won't, obviously, be voting, so what does she care? :p

MarkOB
31-07-2004, 02:50 PM
Sometimes I think to myself about all this. And I come to this conclusion:

America has a vast economy
America has enormous clout in the world
America has a huge military
America is an incredibly large country
America has a huge future
America has massive capability in all things


Why do you bicker about who should be President? Your country should be on Easy Street!!

:)

duckula
31-07-2004, 03:12 PM
a modern democracy should have gun control

Pray tell why? The Swiss peoples are waiting for your answer.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 03:19 PM
a) The Swiss have far tighter controls on guns
b) The Swiss are backwards too...I mean neutrality itself is just a backwards concept :p
c) The Swiss STILL have the second highest rate of handgun-related murders outside of the US. See this is what pro-gun idiots forget...you can't just look at the murder rate and say "The Swiss have compulsory gun ownership and a low murder rate", you have to compare their rate of HANDGUN RELATED murders...anything else is ridiculous. You don't need a gun to strangle someone, do you?

duckula
31-07-2004, 03:22 PM
Every swiss home has a fully automatic rifle in it, hardly tight gun control.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 03:24 PM
Every swiss home has a fully automatic rifle in it, hardly tight gun control.

Duh...I'm aware of that...they're also required to go through much more stringent tests and also have far tighter rules on their keep.

Hasn't stopped them having the second highest rate of gun-related deaths outside of the US in the industrialised world.

Also this is WELL off topic, and as a moderator...shame on you :p. Start a new thread to discuss this, eh? ;)

duckula
31-07-2004, 03:28 PM
Perhaps, but the Americans have gun control also. What was being spoken of was even tighter control. Also, since the enaction of the latest firearms regulations in Britain the amount of violent crimes using firearms has increased (possibly due to social changes but hardly a great advert for gun control.

Yes, new thread time.

Hazzle
31-07-2004, 03:30 PM
Perhaps, but the Americans have gun control also. What was being spoken of was even tighter control. Also, since the enaction of the latest firearms regulations in Britain the amount of violent crimes using firearms has increased (possibly due to social changes but hardly a great advert for gun control.

Yes, new thread time.

As pointed out the Swiss gun controls ARE tighter :).

And yes, it's almost ENTIRELY due to social changes...I mean the Swiss situation is ALSO entirely due to their society...they don't have much of a standing army, as I'm sure we're all aware of...the US by contrast has a huge army.

Renegade
06-10-2004, 12:38 AM
*bump*

I saw Richard viewing this thread so I decided to bump it. Weeee!

Anyone see the 1st Pres debate? Polls shows Kerry edged out Bush. Oh and that reminds me, Vice Pres Debate tonight.




(Haha, Jacoby doesn't get to see Scrubs.)

Richard
06-10-2004, 12:47 AM
I did. I was very... underwhelmed. I admit to being lost and uncaring during the debate, but I was expecting more. Perhaps the next debate will be more enlighting.

It's a requirement. I'm already on pg. 4 of my 5-page report on mass media and how it affects the election... hence my viewing of this thread which resulted in an awkward bump. But thanks, Ren. :)

CFC
06-10-2004, 01:15 AM
Voting Bush. Don't want the taxes to go up. That is really the only reason I am voting for Bush. I don't really like either of them 100%.

John Edwards from the Senator from my state and he has not done crap here, just used it as a stepping stone to run for President. He is just an ambulance chaser.

hasselbrad
06-10-2004, 11:56 AM
Good Lord...Cheney absolutely schooled Edwards in their debate. At one point, Edwards said the exact same thing he had just said. It was like he had gotten up to take a pee and punched play on a tape recorder. There were a few times I thought Edwards was going to take a pee right there in his seat.
And, exactly why did they even have a moderator? She was horrible. She never really seemed to know whose question it was and didn't even make an attempt to keep Edwards on topic. She'd ask a question about one thing and Edwards would ramble about another topic that had already been covered, often never even getting to the topic that was supposed to be discussed.

The Black Rider
06-10-2004, 10:42 PM
I don't like either. I think they're both good men who want to do well for this country, but I flat-out don't trust John Kerry and I've been very uneasy about Bush since the Russert interview.

On the other hand, I've got more important things to worry about than the upcoming election...like doing well in school and on the SATs. I don't think the end of the world is coming, whether Bush wins or Kerry wins. We'll be fine.

But, if anyone, I'm pulling for the National Barking Spider Resurgence party. Partly because of the issues, partly because of the name. Bay/Cogan '04.