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Katielondon
24-09-2007, 02:10 AM
i was having a few ups and downs in my life recently so i went along to my local Scientology church to check it out, i found the people there really understanding and supportive and welcoming, a lot of what was said made sense to me and i really belive in alot of thier practices, i found the process of been audited-this is where you talk to someone about stressful events and bad decisions you have made recently in your life and relive the burden of those bad decisions to them.
im much happier now than i was and will definatly be going for my OT levels, if your in doubt you should go down to your local church what its all about out, instead of shunning thier practices like used to.

Mandy
24-09-2007, 02:13 AM
I really have no idea where the nearest Scientology church is to me. There's probably not even one in this state!

Urbanebula
24-09-2007, 02:15 AM
Ha, I wouldn't have a clue were to start looking for ANY church, let alone a scientology one.

I tend to get sent away from churches.

Digital_Ice
24-09-2007, 02:17 AM
much as I'm all for freedom of expression... i cant help but notice this thread doesnt really have a purpose...

...i can forsee the only replies you'll get will either be zelous replies from *certain* people who wish to ridicule you, or complete spam from... Well Ran. lol

and for the record... Tom Cruise has done nothing but ruin the reputation of the religion.

as someone with an interest in theology, I never understand why people ridicule it so much. Once you get past the media and celebrity hype it's core belifs are no different to most other religions.

Katielondon
24-09-2007, 02:20 AM
i only wanted to share my new found happiness and wisdom with everyone:)

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 02:20 AM
You say "spam" like it's a bad thing. And I'd like to see more posts from *certain* people.

Jacoby
24-09-2007, 02:23 AM
I really have no idea where the nearest Scientology church is to me. There's probably not even one in this state!

Take a left on Route 43 and then head straight to Hollywood.

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 02:26 AM
Take a left on Route 43 and then head straight to Hollywood.

You're on fire tonight. Are you drunk? You are, aren't you? Explains the funny.

Jacoby
24-09-2007, 02:26 AM
I wrote that ^^^ then read Ice's post and now I feel like the contents of a diaper.

But seriously, I find Scientology very odd, but I find all religions odd.

You're on fire tonight. Are you drunk? You are, aren't you? Explains the funny.

I might have a few Miller high life'z in me. Would it be Lives? or Life's, since it's a name.

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 02:29 AM
Ice changed his post afterwards. Trying to seem sensitive to Katie's new religion.

Digital_Ice
24-09-2007, 02:30 AM
actually, he changed his post cause he missed a bit off the copy and paste from notepad.

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 02:32 AM
Stop making excuses. Go to bed. No, that does not mean you make suggestive gay remarks on MSN.

JenR
24-09-2007, 02:49 AM
I dont want to even know what Scientology is after seeing whats happened to tom cruise..

Urbanebula
24-09-2007, 02:53 AM
...Scientology is after seeing whats happened to tom cruise..

Take the "after seeing" bit out and you've pretty much got your explanation anyway.

Mandy
24-09-2007, 02:54 AM
Did Scientology have anything to do with Katie Holmes having to stay silent during labor? If so, FUCK THAT.

JenR
24-09-2007, 02:55 AM
all the silent birth was everyone around katie couldnt make a sound. she could scream all she wanted but everyone else had to be completely quiet.

Mandy
24-09-2007, 02:57 AM
Really? Someone should tell that to the rest of the world.

Jacoby
24-09-2007, 03:03 AM
Did Scientology have anything to do with Katie Holmes having to stay silent during labor? If so, FUCK THAT.

Maybe her doctor was That Yellow Bastard.

Digital_Ice
24-09-2007, 03:06 AM
Maybe her doctor was That Yellow Bastard.

homer simpson?

Urbanebula
24-09-2007, 03:08 AM
God I hope so. I might just convert.

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 03:08 AM
Maybe her doctor was That Yellow Bastard.

Heh. Hilarious. Sick, but hilarious. And no, Ice, TYB is from Sin City.

Mandy
24-09-2007, 03:10 AM
Yeah, I didn't get that joke because I don't remember watching Sin City...

And If I had I probably wouldn't have remember that anyway.

:(

Urbanebula
24-09-2007, 03:10 AM
Oh, That Yellow Bastard.

Jacoby
24-09-2007, 03:11 AM
homer simpson?

Not that one.
This was her doctor:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/devendra87/tyb.jpg


I think I wrote a joke only I'll think is funny.


EDIT: Damn, my photoshopping made me way too late.

Mandy
24-09-2007, 03:12 AM
Oh, That Yellow Bastard.

Yeah, it really could've been anybody.

Hazzle
24-09-2007, 03:13 AM
For future reference, Homer's TFYB, to avoid confusion (and I found it funny Jake).

Urbanebula
24-09-2007, 03:14 AM
Yeah, it really could've been anybody.

Anybody from the Simpsons or with a serious liver condition.

Hazzle
25-09-2007, 12:19 AM
After a long conversation with Katie, very deep, I've started to see that this thing I've been mocking comes purely from a place of misunderstanding. The media portrayal of the Church is not true, but anti-Scientology propoganda spread by those with their own agenda. Those who accuse it of being a money-making scam are generally from more "established" religions but who's to say it's not them that are trying to con us? Would explain why they're trying to put us off Scientology so much.

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 12:39 AM
I can't really believe in a "religion" where you have to buy your way up. That sounds like the Roman Catholic Church of medieval (sp?) times. I said that and I'm Catholic. I put the word religion in quotes because there have been nasty court cases involving CoS's tax status. That and believing that an evil space warlord put humans on earth just to blow them up sounds more outlandish than God creating the heavans and the earth in six days.

Plus I can't think of any other religion that has it's own navy. Catholcism has the Swiss Guard, but they protect the Pope.

I'm not looking to defame. I'm solid to my beliefs and the new Scientologist here is probably solid to hers.

JenR
25-09-2007, 12:41 AM
Really? Someone should tell that to the rest of the world.

Tom said it on Entertainment Tonight long time ago.

Katielondon
25-09-2007, 12:49 AM
I can't really believe in a "religion" where you have to buy your way up. That sounds like the Roman Catholic Church of medieval (sp?) times. I said that and I'm Catholic. I put the word religion in quotes because there have been nasty court cases involving CoS's tax status. That and believing that an evil space warlord put humans on earth just to blow them up sounds more outlandish than God creating the heavans and the earth in six days.

Plus I can't think of any other religion that has it's own navy. Catholcism has the Swiss Guard, but they protect the Pope.

I'm not looking to defame. I'm solid to my beliefs and the new Scientologist here is probably solid to hers.

talking about the events you mention and X**u before you get to OT III can be very bad for people not ready for the knowledge.

Mandy
25-09-2007, 12:51 AM
Tom said it on Entertainment Tonight long time ago.

Oh, I never saw that...I think during the whole Tom/Katie craze, I basically ignored everything about them because it was annoying.

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 01:03 AM
talking about the events you mention and X**u before you get to OT III can be very bad for people not ready for the knowledge.

"X**u"? Mind the language reference, but WTF mate? the Catholic Church used to think that only priests were worthy to read the Bible. then you had all of these revolutionaries like Martin Luther translating the Bible with death threats over their head. Look at it now. Bibles are available in (most likely) every language, not only that but multiple interpretations of the same language.

So if Scientology was in it to save people (or save their theatans as I believe they call them), why would we have to wait to level up? What is this, some sort of RPG game? This isn't Final Fantasy.

JenR
25-09-2007, 01:06 AM
Oh, I never saw that...I think during the whole Tom/Katie craze, I basically ignored everything about them because it was annoying.

ha, yeah i wanted to ingore it, but my mom watched Entertain T. all the time.

Katielondon
25-09-2007, 01:29 AM
"X**u"? Mind the language reference, but WTF mate? the Catholic Church used to think that only priests were worthy to read the Bible. then you had all of these revolutionaries like Martin Luther translating the Bible with death threats over their head. Look at it now. Bibles are available in (most likely) every language, not only that but multiple interpretations of the same language.

So if Scientology was in it to save people (or save their theatans as I believe they call them), why would we have to wait to level up? What is this, some sort of RPG game? This isn't Final Fantasy.

i didnt make the rules and im very new to it but thats how it was explained to me, ive found them to be very understanding and helpful to me and found auditing very worthwhile.
Xenu is the Galactic warlord that you refered to in your first post.
as i understand it, its not about 'leveling up' as you put it but about preparing yourself and readying yourself for the knowledge imparted to you, if you are not ready it could bring you harm which is why its divided up and you have to absorb and practice what is taught to you before you begin on another area, i hope this helps, no doubt ive explained it badly, but that is my personal grasp on our system :) .

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 01:39 AM
I appreciate your trying to help me understand it. This "auditing" process, it sounds like sitting down with a therapist or something. Is the thearpist not an option? And before you start to reply, read this: my mom is a counselor for a major hospital. She has (most likely) dealt with far, far worse things than anythng your auditors have heard. And this OT's. I can't think of any other way to explain them other than levels. I think I saw somewhere explain them as bridges. And don't you have to put a certain amount of money into an OT before you can cross the next bridge, so to speak? Mistake me if I'm wrong, but I think the church itself calls them Operating Thetan levels.

Katielondon
25-09-2007, 01:49 AM
auditing i supose could be viewed as similar, although as a whole we are against therapy, with auditing you are asked questions by the auditor to relive yourself of any stressful and harmful experiences that youve had recently.

you are absolutly right in your statement that OT levels ar called Operating Thetans:) , and yes you do have to make a donation to recive this knowledge,the way i and many others look at it is: we are very new compared to other religions and do not have the saved wealth and assets of hundreds upon hundreds of years existance as with the Roman Catholic church for example, so the donations are there to support, i hope to get to do my OT III within the next year or so.
i would love to talk with you more and hope i can help where i can, but im rather tired now nd must get to bed, could i answr anything else in the morning?.

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 02:03 AM
I'll post this question, when you answer is your convience. Question: What happens if you don't donate? I say this for multiple reasons. One: I saw a news report a few years ago saying that the Holy See, the actual country of Vatican City actually operates in the red, financially. How? I don't know. Two: I've heard rumors that the more money you pour into CoS determines how fast you advance up the levels. If that is true, that would amount to "buying salvation" as it were. Thus making poor people like me suffer through whatever apocolypse they say is coming. I by no means claim to know everything about the CoS, lets just say I've done my reading. Three: the CoS's business practices have come under scrutiny, particularly in Germany where the government labels you as a cult, thus not allowing tax exemption. Fourth (and last that I can think of for now): If I am not mistaken, the CoS's founder a Mr. L. Ron Hubbard once claimed that if you wanted to make money fast, religion was where it was at. I am not quoting, of course; I was simply paraphrasing.

Off of the top of my head I can name a few CoS hotspots: Clearwater, FL (where I have a retired grandmother, the building is litterally just across the bridge); Hollywood, CA; Berlin, Germany; I think the CoS has an office in the Prague and France as well. And the last location: international waters.
Two words:
Sea Org
And what about the Gold Compound? I think that is what's called.

I bring up this last fact for question. Sorry about the long post. I can blather on a long time unchecked.
L. Ron Hubbard spoke of the dangers of psychiatric medicines, but in the last days of his life didn't he use them heavily?

Digital_Ice
25-09-2007, 04:00 AM
See, this is where Scientology falls down for me, the whole galactic alien warriors, and paying to progress to the next knowledge level just makes me want to go play world of warcraft.

On the contrast though, how are the donations any different to say, the christian church passing around a collection plate? Atleast they're honest about how much they want and why, instead of publicly guit-tripping you into dontating as much as you can, with the amount you give seeming to somehow reflect on your piety.

Also, if people are willing to pay... why shouldn't they ask for donations? They need to turn a profit in order to survive. Texts and churches don't just appear out of nowhere you know (unless of course the aliens provide them too. lol)

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 04:16 AM
See, this is where Scientology falls down for me, the whole galactic alien warriors, and paying to progress to the next knowledge level just makes me want to go play world of warcraft.

On the contrast though, how are the donations any different to say, the christian church passing around a collection plate? Atleast they're honest about how much they want and why, instead of publicly guit-tripping you into dontating as much as you can, with the amount you give seeming to somehow reflect on your piety.

Also, if people are willing to pay... why shouldn't they ask for donations? They need to turn a profit in order to survive. Texts and churches don't just appear out of nowhere you know (unless of course the aliens provide them too. lol)

And those are interesting points, DI. The differences as I see them are, you must pay to reach the next level, whereas a collection plate is completely voluntary. Whether or not you fall for the guilt trip is your own matter. And they are entitled to ask for donations, I just don't think having to pay for the next level of piety should be required. And although texts and buildings don't appear out of nowhere, the fact that the CoS building I've seen in Clearwater, FL is bigger than any church building I've seen as well as the purchase and operation of a cruise ship for their Sea Org. says that their money priorities are elsewhere.

Digital_Ice
25-09-2007, 05:05 AM
ok then, new comparison.
How is paying to learn the next level thingy (its 6am, give me a break) any different from, say, paying a tutor to teach you Portuguese in preperation for your holiday?
You are choosing to pay for a service (yes, bad phraseology i know) that you wanted. If you don't want to pay, it's quite simple, don't. But don't expect them to give you something for nothing, it's very rare that that happens in the world.

Hazzle
25-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Exactly Ice. It's about paying for the tutelage you're receiving, the knowledge Katie talked about. It's no different in that respect to paying for any other sort of knowledge. Scientology doesn't sell "salvation" like the other religions, that's where Spartan is misunderstanding. The Church doesn't say if you pay you'll be spared in any apocalypse, what it does is provide you the knowledge to achieve your own salvation. Unlike other faiths it empowers you, rather than wanting you to live a co-dependent lifestyle. You pay to learn, not to for "piety".

Oh, and if the Holy See is in the red it must mean the condom factory listed as an asset of the Vatican (how hypocritical for a faith to condemn contraception and then seek to make money out of it) isn't doing all that well. Or maybe, and here's a thought, they don't want everyone to see how filthy rich they are because then the scam that's been going so well for 2000 years would be revealed. Whilst I welcome questions on Scientology (I don't claim to be as knowledgeable about it as Katie, I'm only discovering it now) I think it's important other religions are held to the same scrutiny.

Katielondon
25-09-2007, 12:46 PM
I'll post this question, when you answer is your convience. Question: What happens if you don't donate? I say this for multiple reasons. One: I saw a news report a few years ago saying that the Holy See, the actual country of Vatican City actually operates in the red, financially. How? I don't know. Two: I've heard rumors that the more money you pour into CoS determines how fast you advance up the levels. If that is true, that would amount to "buying salvation" as it were. Thus making poor people like me suffer through whatever apocolypse they say is coming. I by no means claim to know everything about the CoS, lets just say I've done my reading. Three: the CoS's business practices have come under scrutiny, particularly in Germany where the government labels you as a cult, thus not allowing tax exemption. Fourth (and last that I can think of for now): If I am not mistaken, the CoS's founder a Mr. L. Ron Hubbard once claimed that if you wanted to make money fast, religion was where it was at. I am not quoting, of course; I was simply paraphrasing.

Off of the top of my head I can name a few CoS hotspots: Clearwater, FL (where I have a retired grandmother, the building is litterally just across the bridge); Hollywood, CA; Berlin, Germany; I think the CoS has an office in the Prague and France as well. And the last location: international waters.
Two words:
Sea Org
And what about the Gold Compound? I think that is what's called.

I bring up this last fact for question. Sorry about the long post. I can blather on a long time unchecked.
L. Ron Hubbard spoke of the dangers of psychiatric medicines, but in the last days of his life didn't he use them heavily?

i belive Haz made a good point, its not a case of buying your salvation or clearing your consience through donation, rahter donating llows you to progress and provides you the knowledge and tools to find your own salvation, as i say im very new into it, but i know one thing: i was given a Roman Catholic upbringing and it made me miserable and unhappy and for once i can belive in something higher and genuinely feel i belive in thier values and methods :) .

Spartan117warrior
25-09-2007, 06:40 PM
Oh, and if the Holy See is in the red it must mean the condom factory listed as an asset of the Vatican (how hypocritical for a faith to condemn contraception and then seek to make money out of it) isn't doing all that well. Or maybe, and here's a thought, they don't want everyone to see how filthy rich they are because then the scam that's been going so well for 2000 years would be revealed. Whilst I welcome questions on Scientology (I don't claim to be as knowledgeable about it as Katie, I'm only discovering it now) I think it's important other religions are held to the same scrutiny.

Scrutiny and attack are two radically different things. Scam? The same thing could very well be said for Scientology if you want to go down that road.

Hazzle
25-09-2007, 10:21 PM
I used the word "scam" for that very reason. Far be it from me to suggest you were implying Scientology is a scam, but many do, and your criticisms would be read by them as suggesting you agree with that viewpoint. The use of words was not an attack but an illustration of how that word, used to attack Scientology, could just so easily be used against other faiths. I am curious though, how do Catholics justify the fact the Vatican owns a condom factory?

Katielondon
25-09-2007, 11:03 PM
scam is a very hostile word.

duckula
25-09-2007, 11:10 PM
Here are some other hostile words: vicious, manipulation, of, vulnerable, people.

barrington
26-09-2007, 12:13 AM
Let's put it this way - within the confines of Scientology; if you don't pay anything, can you still achieve the same level of salvation as the 'highest' members?

If not, No.1 you don't have an authentic religion, worldview or way of life and No.2 you wan't to be very, very, VERY wary.

Spartan117warrior
26-09-2007, 12:15 AM
I am curious though, how do Catholics justify the fact the Vatican owns a condom factory?

I didn't know the Vatican owned and operated a condom factory. Can you post a link so I may learn more of this?

Mandy
26-09-2007, 12:20 AM
Baz just asked the question that I was about to. It just seems a bit ridiculous to have a "religion" where people that can't pay are just pretty much screwed.

Katielondon
26-09-2007, 12:35 AM
well all i know is im much more at peace with mysef now and much happier, if i have to pay some to progress then thats what i will have to do.

Spartan117warrior
26-09-2007, 12:36 AM
Baz just asked the question that I was about to. It just seems a bit ridiculous to have a "religion" where people that can't pay are just pretty much screwed.

This is my question to all of the Schientology supports (I'm not saying Mandy is, her quote is just a good phrase to use for it).

What happens if you don't "donate" to the church? Do they not give you the knowledge to achieve your own salvation? If that is true, that would be a first for me. The Catholic Church (now) doesn't sell salvation. You don't even have to Catholic to go to a Catholic church.

Hazzle
26-09-2007, 11:13 AM
Let's put it this way - within the confines of Scientology; if you don't pay anything, can you still achieve the same level of salvation as the 'highest' members?

Scientology doesn't sell salvation. You pay for knowledge. It really is no different to the analogy Ice used, of paying for tutelage. By that token Baz it's wrong that some people are able to get a better quality of education by paying for it than others, and thereby get better career prospects and lead better lives. Why do we have private education in that case? And before you argue equal access, that's a load of bull, I know for a fact that people who paid for their education who are in no way more intelligent than I have had more doors open to them. Such is life in a Capitalist world.

hasselbrad
26-09-2007, 12:49 PM
Scientology doesn't sell salvation. You pay for knowledge. It really is no different to the analogy Ice used, of paying for tutelage.

Sort of like, if you bought a science fiction novel written by L. Ron Hubbard, right?

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

Spartan117warrior
26-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Scientology doesn't sell salvation. You pay for knowledge. It really is no different to the analogy Ice used, of paying for tutelage. By that token Baz it's wrong that some people are able to get a better quality of education by paying for it than others, and thereby get better career prospects and lead better lives. Why do we have private education in that case? And before you argue equal access, that's a load of bull, I know for a fact that people who paid for their education who are in no way more intelligent than I have had more doors open to them. Such is life in a Capitalist world.

The very question the quoted, you were unable to answer. Scientology doesn't deal in schooling, it deals in salvation (whatever its definition of that is). Speaking only about Scientology: are the people that donate more better off because they have more "knowledge" about whatever they need to know to save themselves?

I don't know of any church that charges an admission fee to get in. Heck, they don't even check to see that you are their religion! And the quotes right above me explain it perfectly from the author himself, a Mr. L. Ron Hubbard.

hasselbrad
26-09-2007, 01:35 PM
ok then, new comparison.
How is paying to learn the next level thingy (its 6am, give me a break) any different from, say, paying a tutor to teach you Portuguese in preperation for your holiday?
You are choosing to pay for a service (yes, bad phraseology i know) that you wanted. If you don't want to pay, it's quite simple, don't. But don't expect them to give you something for nothing, it's very rare that that happens in the world.

Portugeuse lessons generally don't entail a session where you answer questions (often times painful ones) about yourself. Potuguese lessons don't promise you some sort of understanding on a meta-physical level.
L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer, pure and simple.
He claimed to be a decorated war hero, when in fact, he was relieved command on several occasions. He also claimed to be a nuclear physicist, when in fact, he took one physics class...and failed it.
He was a bigimist, who abandoned one of his families.
He was a racist. According to him, China had too many "chinks".
He was a homophobe. His son...who happened to be a homosexual...attempted suicide. When he did die, it was under a cloud of suspicion.
Pretty much everything about the man is a work of fiction, so it only stands to reason that his "religion" is a work of fiction.
I've actually heard people make comments along the lines of "it makes a lot of sense...there are things I've heard in church since I was a kid." Well, if you're going to create a religion, you need to begin with a base that people can relate to. Hubbard borrowed from most major religions in order to have it make sense to people.

Hazzle
26-09-2007, 04:00 PM
The very question the quoted, you were unable to answer. Scientology doesn't deal in schooling, it deals in salvation (whatever its definition of that is). Speaking only about Scientology: are the people that donate more better off because they have more "knowledge" about whatever they need to know to save themselves?.

I did answer the question, you just didn't like the answer. You say "Scientology doesn't deal in schooling, it deals in salvation", despite me pointing out the exact opposite so clearly your mind is already made up. Are people that donate money better off because they have more knowledge? I'll answer that by asking you a question, are people that pay for education better off because they have more knowledge? The two are the exact same thing. By all means you're entitled to be closed-minded but be honest about it and say so. If you want my answers, listen to them.

Brad's criticisms are far more valid although, may I point out that all major religions tend to have common threads throughout them, so one may argue they all borrow from each other "in order to have it make sense to people". Perhaps Ice's analogy isn't the best, like Brad said, Portuguese lessons don't involve sessions or a deeper understanding. Therapy does, however. And people pay for that. In what way is this different? It isn't, it's simply your fear of the unknown making it so.

Many have claimed the writers of the Bible were writers of fiction, some claim all religions are based on texts that are entirely fictional, so what, preytell, is the difference? The longevity? I'm sure the same people who belittle Scientology now belitted Buddhism and Sikhim, because they too, at their formation, lacked the longevity of the other faiths. Does that mean Hinduism, believed to be the oldest religion in the world, is the "correct" one and all the others are purely fictional?

And of course homophobia is not a criticism one can level at the Catholic church, is it Brad? Katie's Catholic upringing was, in her own words, unhappy, most likely on account of her own sexuality. What do you have to say to her, that Catholicism isn't a valid religion either? At least this religion makes her happy. The Bible asks us to believe that Jesus walked on water, and turned water into wine, when modern attempts at such transmutation have failed. If one were to be cynical one could claim that the same criticisms about false claims made by L Ron could equally be made against Jesus.

As for racism, last I checked the major wars in the world were all started by religious hatred by the existing faiths. Didn't the Christians likewise believe that Africa had too many "heathens"? And Turkey too for that matter. Seems that Christianity has been pretty racist itself (as have other faiths).

Spartan117warrior
26-09-2007, 04:54 PM
I'll answer this on a paragraph by paragraph basis (it's easier for both of us).

I did answer the question, you just didn't like the answer. You say "Scientology doesn't deal in schooling, it deals in salvation", despite me pointing out the exact opposite so clearly your mind is already made up. Are people that donate money better off because they have more knowledge? I'll answer that by asking you a question, are people that pay for education better off because they have more knowledge? The two are the exact same thing. By all means you're entitled to be closed-minded but be honest about it and say so. If you want my answers, listen to them.

Scientology does not operate schools. Scientology does not teach math, physics, or litterary skills. They "teach" salvation. And you have yet to answer my question. Are the people that donate more to the church better off spiritually than poor people that can't or won't donate. That is the stated question, and an answer in question form will be accepted as a non-answer.

Brad's criticisms are far more valid although, may I point out that all major religions tend to have common threads throughout them, so one may argue they all borrow from each other "in order to have it make sense to people". Perhaps Ice's analogy isn't the best, like Brad said, Portuguese lessons don't involve sessions or a deeper understanding. Therapy does, however. And people pay for that. In what way is this different? It isn't, it's simply your fear of the unknown making it so.

I think the one thing all major religions have in common is that they are trying to make us better off than we were beforehand. While it is certainly admissible that Scientology does the same, my question remain: are richer people better off? Therapy is paid for because you are consulting a professional in their field of specialty for advice or services. I could go to a Catholic priest and talk to him, he doesn't charge anything. You would be hard pressed to find someone who is genuinely unafraid for the unknown.

Many have claimed the writers of the Bible were writers of fiction, some claim all religions are based on texts that are entirely fictional, so what, preytell, is the difference? The longevity? I'm sure the same people who belittle Scientology now belitted Buddhism and Sikhim, because they too, at their formation, lacked the longevity of the other faiths. Does that mean Hinduism, believed to be the oldest religion in the world, is the "correct" one and all the others are purely fictional?

People saying that the Bible was written as fiction, that is their own take on it. I don't look at Tom Clancy's writings as real (although it is quite possible for them to actually take place). One of the things I have against Scientology is that it was created in the last 50 years. What mainstream religion can you think of was created (at it's heart) by a proclaimed science fiction writer? If I take all religion creation stories as real, God created Christianity, Allah created Islam, I'm not too familiar with Hinduism, the Great Spirit created Native American pracitces, and a science fiction writer created Scientology.

And of course homophobia is not a criticism one can level at the Catholic church, is it Brad? Katie's Catholic upringing was, in her own words, unhappy, most likely on account of her own sexuality. What do you have to say to her, that Catholicism isn't a valid religion either? At least this religion makes her happy. The Bible asks us to believe that Jesus walked on water, and turned water into wine, when modern attempts at such transmutation have failed. If one were to be cynical one could claim that the same criticisms about false claims made by L Ron could equally be made against Jesus.

Honestly I don't know where this came from. I didn't touch on sexuality, nor did I intend to find out about other members of this forum's preference. That is between you and your (God, Allah, conscience, galactic warlord, whatever). But the criticisms of Jesus are just pathetic. Jesus didn't have electricity, and you want modern scince to recreate those miracles? Technically it is possible to turn water to wine. All you have to do is add some molecular structures or some cells. At the heart of it, just rearaange the structure. It is possible to change straw to gold, it is just prohibitively expensive.

As for racism, last I checked the major wars in the world were all started by religious hatred by the existing faiths. Didn't the Christians likewise believe that Africa had too many "heathens"? And Turkey too for that matter. Seems that Christianity has been pretty racist itself (as have other faiths).

I don't know too much about religious wars (other than the Crusades) prior to the 19th century. But I don't know what kind of Christianity you've learned about, but the basis for mine is love the sinner, hate the sin; not love the white man, hate the black. That is not what I subscribe to. My roommate is black, we get along fine.

All in all, I don't know why this fell into debate. I was just asking questions. It is clear that you and KatieLondon are Scientologist, I'm Catholic. No amount of debate, attacks, fact checks, and whatever is going to change that. Honestly, if you have questions about the Catholic faith, of even that condom factory thing, go ask a priest. There are a lot more Catholic churchs than Scientologist buildings around.

hasselbrad
26-09-2007, 06:09 PM
What do you have to say to her, that Catholicism isn't a valid religion either?

Pretty much, yeah. :p

I eschew organized religion, because it is...organized.
Any time a heirarchy is created, you have opportunity for corruption and the exploitation of those at the foot of said heirarchy. The Catholic church is the Alpha and the Omega when it comes to heirarchy, corruption and exploitation.
And, the Catholic church buries Christianity under a pile of false idols and expectation of works. If one distills the idea of Christianity down to its basic element, the message is simple. Accept Christ as your savior and spend eternity in heaven. Period. Read enough of the Bible, and this becomes more apparent. Sure, there's a lot of drama and special effects, but that's what draws the crowd in. Would anyone remember the movie Die Hard if there weren't any action sequences?
The difference between classic religions and Scientology is that with your classic religions, it's usually that the scripture is perverted by the church in order to exploit. With Scientology, the scripture is based on exploitation. L. Ron Hubbard developed it as a money making scheme, pure and simple.
I live about twenty miles from the center of the Scientology universe. I've had a fair amount of contact with Scientologists over the years, and trust me when I tell you, it is a well developed process to separate people who are searching for some kind of sense in the world from their money. The danger comes when it separates them from their families and their friends, just like any other cult. And, sometimes it is fatal. Several people have died in bizarre circumstances at the Fort Harrison Hotel (headquarters) in Clearwater over the years. One man looking for a refund was hit and killed by a car on Cleveland Street the day after he arrived. Several people have died in bizarre fashions, which can probably be attributed to them being forced off of their medications. And then, there's Lisa McPherson. She was held against her will, and for all intents and purposes, starved to death.
People who try to get away from Scientology are routinely harrassed, and it usually involves money.

Hazzle
27-09-2007, 02:13 PM
Pretty much, yeah. :p

I'd agree with that. One thing you do raise that interests me is the idea that Christianity says "accept Christ and spend eternity in Heaven". The corrolary of this is "don't accept Christ (whilst not overtly "rejecting" him either) and spend eternity in Hell". So when Spartan asks "Are people who donate better off spiritually than those who don't?", doesn't it stand to reason that all religions make demands of you? I certainly can't think of a religion that says "Do what you want".

Of course the retort is "Yes, but they don't make demands of your money" but what is money, in a spiritual context? Don't all major religions agree that you can't take it with you? So money's temporary, in the bigger scheme of things. What Christianity demands of its followers is eternal submission of your very soul to Jesus. I'd say that's asking a lot more of a person than asking that they donate money which they'd likely spend on things like drugs and alcohol. My soul is worth more than all the money I have, surely? Or do you guys not consider your souls priceless?

Spartan, why the hostility? "An answer in question form will be accepted as a non-answer". Why, because you can't interpret that for yourself? I can see now why you like Catholicism, you're told what to think. An answer in question form is still an answer, it just asks you to answer the question posed in response. Since you require it spelt out to you, I'll answer the question I asked of you. Those who pay for private education are not necessarily better off than those who don't. What they are is more knowledgeable which may get them a better job, but quality of life is about more than money. That's why the criticisms of Scientology and money seem misplaced.

To apply this to Scientology, and your question (since I'd hate for you not to be able to follow this) those who donate are not necessarily better off spiritually than those who do not. What they are is more knowledgeable about themselves and the world they live in which may ensure that they are more at peace than those who do not. Ultimately whether they're happier or not depends on the individual, all Scientology does is provide the tools. Tools paid for by the donations (like Neil said, things cost money). It's no different than when your Church needs its roof repaired (and the Church building itself is a "tool" of your salvation) and they ask for donations.

Spartan, where your talk about creation falls foul is L Ron never claimed to be a creator. God didn't creat Christianity, the writers of the Bible did. Allah didn't create Islam, the prophets did. All L Ron did was bring us religious philosophy, he never claimed to be a God so comparing him to God or Allah is a false comparison. What was Jesus? The son of a Carpenter. So just as you could argue Scientology was created by a writer, I could equally say Christianity was created (because ultimately Christ is the difference between Judaism and Christianity) by the son of a Carpenter. Islam was founded, in large part, by Mohammad, who was an orphan merchant. And Brad, if we're talking Polygamy, Mohammad had 11 or 13 wives (depending on accounts) and coincidentally told everyone that Allah said it was ok to marry lots of women. Hmm...sounds like someone was covering his own back ;)

hasselbrad
27-09-2007, 04:41 PM
That's why the criticisms of Scientology and money seem misplaced.
Except when you take into account the badgering of those who don't pay by the "church", sometimes to the point of driving them to suicide.

I've been to many different churches, but I've never been hounded or strong-armed into putting anything in the collection plate. The closest to that would have been at my cousin's church in rural Alabama. Bruth-uh Jerr-ah (Brother Jerry for those of you without Hooked on Southern Phonics) used to (and I'm sure still does) admonish the parishoners that they aren't "livin' up ta theyuh givin' potential". This was one of the things that really turned me away from the church at a relatively early age. This was a Baptist church in a poor, rural area, and Bruth-uh Jerr-ah had a nice house, a Lincoln Town Car, new suits every month and a big diamond ring. He also liked to go golfing on the weekdays, when most of the people who were footing the bill for all this were hard at work.

As for the demands you speak of, let me elaborate. Most Christian churches do put all sorts of demands on you. The Catholic church is one of the most egregious offenders, what with confession and the resulting Hail Marys. Most Christian churches put a large emphasis on works, but if the Bible is read closely, heaven cannot be acheived through anything but the acceptance of Christ as your savior. When I do go to church...which has been exactly twice this calendar year, I go to a Community Church. The minister there is a bit different than most you run across in Christiandom. He didn't grow up wanting to be a preacher and has a degree in electrical engineering. He tends to brush aside a lot of the special effects and stick with the underlying message of salvation.
Donating money won't get it.
Volunteering with the homeless won't get it.
Living a straight and narrow life won't, either. And, the last part is what's most important.
Fuck who you want.
Eat, drink, shoot-up and be merry.
Put a penny in the collection plate.
No demands are put on your personal life, save for the aforementioned acceptance of Christ.

I can't be sure, but I would imagine if more people had heard this in church growing up, cults would have a lot less to get their hooks into. Marcia's a recovering Catholic, and she is really having a difficult time getting her head around the concept, having gone to Catholic school and been guilted all of her life. And she's a smart cookie...she even understands the offside rule.

How this all relates to Scientology is simple. They prey on the vulnerable, often to their financial ruin. They ask loaded questions to get responses that dovetail into their "sales pitch". The "knowledge" isn't anything that you couldn't walk into any Borders or Barnes and Noble and find in a hundred self help books. The rest of it is nonsense based on Hubbard's imagination. They are very similar to a consulting company here in the States known as George S. May. These "business consultants" come in and charge ridiculous fees to "consult" with small business owners. Their advice is usually limited to basic business common sense, but their bills are outrageous and often run the business into bankruptcy. But, they have a huge market of struggling business-owners, desperate to stay afloat.

Katielondon
27-09-2007, 10:33 PM
so your basicly saying im wrong, and thick too?:dontknowa

DanMan
27-09-2007, 11:17 PM
all the silent birth was everyone around katie couldnt make a sound. she could scream all she wanted but everyone else had to be completely quiet.

They COULDNT make a sound Jen after Katie ripped thier lips off during
the 199th contraction.

:icon_err:

duckula
28-09-2007, 12:09 AM
so your basicly saying im wrong, and thick too?:dontknowa

If he isn't, I am. You are weak and being manipulated by people seeking to take advantage of this. The sooner you get your shit together and realise that personal salvation comes from self knowledge rather than some hoodoo claptrap bullshit peddled by money grabbing nutbars, the better.

Digital_Ice
28-09-2007, 12:15 AM
dude, there's no need to ridicule her. just because you think it's a load of rubbish doesnt mean your nessersarily right. i don't belive it either, the idea of some alien warlord etc. seems a bit far fetched to me. but seing as i dont KNOW its not true, i dont think its fair to tell people she's wrong. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Mandy
28-09-2007, 12:24 AM
Well...for Frank, that was actually a NICE comment. :p

It would take a hell of a lot to convince me that scientology is the correct path to salvation, but I believe that everyone needs something to believe in. I mean, there ARE crazier religions, I suppose.

Spartan117warrior
28-09-2007, 03:38 AM
so your basicly saying im wrong, and thick too?:dontknowa

I just don't respond when it goes from question and answer to personal attacks.

duckula
28-09-2007, 09:23 AM
dude, there's no need to ridicule her. just because you think it's a load of rubbish doesnt mean your nessersarily right. i don't belive it either, the idea of some alien warlord etc. seems a bit far fetched to me. but seing as i dont KNOW its not true, i dont think its fair to tell people she's wrong. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion but if that opinion is completely wrong then it should be pointed out. This weak sauce relativism is a real fucking problem and shouldn't be allowed to persist by decent, rational people.

Anyone not blinded by crippling self deception (and I acknowledge that is a disarmingly small number of people) can see that the cultish psychobabble bullshit spouted by the scientologists is not only entirely rediculous but when used by the kind of manipulative, self-serving wankholes that populate the church of scientology is flat out evil.

Most major religions (whatever you may think of them) tend to espouse such dangerous concepts as self knowledge, adherence to fundemental tenets of decent behaviour (no stealing and killing etc.) and the power of charity. The problem with most of these religions is the parasitic organisations that surround perfectly sound ideology which like any large enterprise are prone to human weakness on a grand scale (intolerance, war, greed, sexual impropriety and other fun stuff). The problem with scientology seems to be that it is rotten from the core outwards.

Digital_Ice
28-09-2007, 09:31 AM
but you didn't have to be so blunt. you called her an idiot, weak, and thick. which is a bit harsh don't you think?

duckula
28-09-2007, 10:34 AM
No...

Katielondon
28-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion but if that opinion is completely wrong then it should be pointed out. This weak sauce relativism is a real fucking problem and shouldn't be allowed to persist by decent, rational people.

Anyone not blinded by crippling self deception (and I acknowledge that is a disarmingly small number of people) can see that the cultish psychobabble bullshit spouted by the scientologists is not only entirely rediculous but when used by the kind of manipulative, self-serving wankholes that populate the church of scientology is flat out evil.

Most major religions (whatever you may think of them) tend to espouse such dangerous concepts as self knowledge, adherence to fundemental tenets of decent behaviour (no stealing and killing etc.) and the power of charity. The problem with most of these religions is the parasitic organisations that surround perfectly sound ideology which like any large enterprise are prone to human weakness on a grand scale (intolerance, war, greed, sexual impropriety and other fun stuff). The problem with scientology seems to be that it is rotten from the core outwards.

how do you know that my opinion is wrong?, you dont have any proof that says it is, its just your opinion that im wrong.



Haz did you want to come to Church with me on sunday and see what its all about?.

Hazzle
28-09-2007, 01:50 PM
Fuck who you want.
No demands are put on your personal life, save for the aforementioned acceptance of Christ.


*Coughs* Last I checked "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the Ten Commandments. Say what you like about whether the Bible explicitly prohibits homosexuality (some say that's a mis-reading) but it's pretty clear-cut on adultery. So I'm not sure "Fuck who you want" is necessarily a Christian value ;). Christianity, like all faiths, does put demands on your personal life.

Plus I'd rather a faith that put restrictions on things like shooting up (which is bad for me) than on something as crucial as accepting that Christ is my saviour. As far as I see it Christ was a Rabbi who went around blaspheming and was executed for it. His followers had delusions of him coming back from the dead and so a religion was born. If that guy's my saviour something is seriously wrong...

Sorry, but I'd rather be part of a religion where donating worldly wealth is all they ever ask of me than one where I'm asked to sell something as precious as my soul to an organisation that's as much about money and power (and always has been) as any "salvation". And yes, the Christian church is a business, believe it or not, always has been, and people who don't see that are as blind as they claim Scientologists are. Extensive research on the history of the church (go back and look up the Borgias if you want proof) would tell you that it has always been a corrupt organisation designed to profit those at the very top. Trust me, there are billionaires who'd die for the Pope's private lifestyle.

And yeah Katie, I'll be glad to come along on Sunday. I've got your number, I'll give you a call and we can arrange to meet up and go together. Unlike the rest of these cynics I have an open mind.

hasselbrad
28-09-2007, 02:55 PM
*Coughs* Last I checked "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the Ten Commandments. Say what you like about whether the Bible explicitly prohibits homosexuality (some say that's a mis-reading) but it's pretty clear-cut on adultery. So I'm not sure "Fuck who you want" is necessarily a Christian value ;). Christianity, like all faiths, does put demands on your personal life.

Plus I'd rather a faith that put restrictions on things like shooting up (which is bad for me) than on something as crucial as accepting that Christ is my saviour. As far as I see it Christ was a Rabbi who went around blaspheming and was executed for it. His followers had delusions of him coming back from the dead and so a religion was born. If that guy's my saviour something is seriously wrong...

Sorry, but I'd rather be part of a religion where donating worldly wealth is all they ever ask of me than one where I'm asked to sell something as precious as my soul to an organisation that's as much about money and power (and always has been) as any "salvation". And yes, the Christian church is a business, believe it or not, always has been, and people who don't see that are as blind as they claim Scientologists are. Extensive research on the history of the church (go back and look up the Borgias if you want proof) would tell you that it has always been a corrupt organisation designed to profit those at the very top. Trust me, there are billionaires who'd die for the Pope's private lifestyle.

And yeah Katie, I'll be glad to come along on Sunday. I've got your number, I'll give you a call and we can arrange to meet up and go together. Unlike the rest of these cynics I have an open mind.

That's the fucking point I'm trying to make.
Yes...the Christian church has been a money making venture.
Yes...the Christian church has put demands on individuals' lifestyles.
Yes...the Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not" a lot of things.
But, even though thou shall do a lot of things on that list, thou's salvation isn't dependent on what thou hast done.

Regardless of the merits of one religion over another, I've seen Scientology up close. A friend from high school's father got involved after his divorce. He was vulnerable and lonely after a marriage of two decades had failed. Scientology filled that void...and emptied his bank account.

Hazzle
28-09-2007, 06:46 PM
But, even though thou shall do a lot of things on that list, thou's salvation isn't dependent on what thou hast done.

Course it is. Nowhere does Christianity say "Sin all you want so long as you accept Christ was the son of God". You have to a) repent your sins and b) not continue to live in sin after "finding" Christ. So yes, your salavation is actually dependent on meeting three (not just one) demand on your personal life, 1) accepting Christ 2) repenting and 3) not committing sin again.

Katielondon
28-09-2007, 06:46 PM
And yeah Katie, I'll be glad to come along on Sunday. I've got your number, I'll give you a call and we can arrange to meet up and go together. Unlike the rest of these cynics I have an open mind.

It would be really great if you can come:) , I can pick you up if you need me to?.

Hazzle
28-09-2007, 06:49 PM
Yeah, I could do with a lift. It'll also be nice to spend some time with a non-doubter.

hasselbrad
28-09-2007, 07:12 PM
Course it is. Nowhere does Christianity say "Sin all you want so long as you accept Christ was the son of God". You have to a) repent your sins and b) not continue to live in sin after "finding" Christ. So yes, your salavation is actually dependent on meeting three (not just one) demand on your personal life, 1) accepting Christ 2) repenting and 3) not committing sin again.

Like I said, that's the line most churches use (and have used for millenia) to keep the flock "in line".

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son (I John 5:10).

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work (Romans 11:6).

Most ministers refer to it as "easy believism", but the Bible is full of this message.

dave
29-09-2007, 05:45 AM
WoW! try Googleing using the terms "Scientology doubt" I thought the Moonies had that franchise.

or start with http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html
http://tinyurl.com/28pw4q

Why did prophet Muhammad marry many wives?




First answer by 222.153.100.211. Last edit by Roe233. Contributor trust: 75 [recommend contributor]. Question popularity: 14 [recommend question]

Answer

When Muhammad was twenty-five years old he married for the first time. His wife, Khadijah, was fifteen years older than him. She remained the only wife of the prophet for the next twenty-five years, until she died (may Allah be pleased with her).

Only after her death did the prophet marry other women. Now, it is obvious that if the prophet was after physical pleasure he did not have to wait until he was more than fifty years old to start marrying more wives. He lived in a society in which it was quite acceptable to have many wives. But the prophet remained devoted to his only wife for twenty-five years. When she died she was sixty-five years old.

His later marriages were for various reasons. Some marriages were with the view to help the women whose husbands had been killed while they were defending their faith. Others were with a view to cement relationships with devoted followers like Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him. Yet others were to build bridges with various tribes who were otherwise at war with the Muslims. When the prophet became their relative through marriage, their hostilities calmed down, and much bloodshed was averted.

Recent non-Muslim writers who had the opportunity to study the life of the prophet first-hand reached a similar conclusion about his plural marriages.

John L. Esposito, Professor of Religion and Director of the Centre for International Studies at the College of the Holy Cross, says that most of these marriages had "political and social motives" (Islam: The Straight Path, Oxford University Press, 1988, p. 19). This he explained as follows:

As was customary for Arab chiefs, many were political marriages to cement alliances. Others were marriages to the widows of his companions who had fallen in combat and were in need of protection (John L. Esposito, Islam: The Straight Path, pp. 19-20).

Esposito reminds us of the following historical fact:

Though less common, polygyny was also permitted in biblical and even in post-biblical Judaism. From Abraham, David, and Solomon down to the reformation period, polygyny was practiced (p. 19).

Another non-Muslim Caesar E. Farah writes as follows:

In the prime of his youth and adult years Muhammad remained thoroughly devoted to Khadijah and would have none other for consort. This was an age that looked upon plural marriages with favor and in a society that in pre-biblical and post-biblical days considered polygamy an essential feature of social existence.

David had six wives and numerous concubines (2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3) and Solomon was said to have had as many as 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3)

Solomon�s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines (2 Chronicles 11:21). The New Testament contains no specific injunction against plural marriages. It was commonplace for the nobility among the Christians and Jews to contract plural marriages. Luther spoke of it with toleration (Caesar E. Farah, Islam: Beliefs and Observances, 4th edition, Barron�s, U.S. 1987, p. 69).

Caesar Farah then concluded that Muhammad�s plural marriages were due "partly to political reasons and partly to his concern for the wives of his companions who had fallen in battle defending the nascent Islamic community" (p. 69).

When people hear that the prophet had many wives they conclude without much thought that the prophet was a sensuous man. However, a quick historical review of his marriages, proves otherwise.

Interestingly, during Mohammad's lifetime, Jews and Christians were also normally polygamous. (There being no prohibition in either Religion's Bible against that practice.)

dave
29-09-2007, 07:05 AM
If he isn't, I am. You are weak and being manipulated by people seeking to take advantage of this. The sooner you get your shit together and realize that personal salvation comes from self knowledge rather than some hoodoo claptrap bullshit peddled by money grabbing nutbars, the better.

Well there had to be a first time, (that I agree 100% with Duck) though I probably wouldn't have had the courage to be so outspoken about it. But EVERY webpage I saw is even meaner than Duck is about this.

Do a little web research. It turns out that hundreds of people who have "gone 'Clear'" (which seems to mean are high up in the Religion) have spent a lot of effort to actually publish all the Secret Writings on the web. They're out there and they are not hard to find.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And one other little thing that came up in this discussion. Awhile back I was looking around to see whether the Saudis had bought a lot of property in the US. I found, that at that time, the organization that owned more US land than any other was the Catholic Church.

Well, that's wrong. The US Government owns between 44% and 48% of the land in America. Perhaps it was by Value? because the US Government owns about 93% of Nevada and all that desert isn't worth spit.
http://tinyurl.com/26uljj

Keira lover
09-10-2007, 08:54 PM
I have no idea where to find a scientologist center, but when it comes to solving my problems and relieving stress: caffeine works best for me. People tell me never to start drinking, ever. They are probably right, but that won't stop me.

Well, that's wrong. The US Government owns between 44% and 48% of the land in America. Perhaps it was by Value? because the US Government owns about 93% of Nevada and all that desert isn't worth spit.


And the land in Nevada-legal gambling and prostitution. the value comes in the utter mass of tax dollars coming form the 2 industries, And the government has no reason to own land. Individuals and corporations own the land: the government taxes it.

Hazzle
10-10-2007, 12:57 AM
I went with Katie and I'm convinced this is the right path. Katie donated 20,000 immediately even before we heard a word, she was that sure. Now that I've heard what they have to say, I'm pleding my life savings. I hope everyone will respect my decision and treat me as they always have.

Spartan117warrior
10-10-2007, 01:06 AM
Well, it's her (and your) money. I wouldn't of given my life savings to anyone (except in will), not even my church.

Digital_Ice
10-10-2007, 01:20 AM
With you its hard to tell if your serious, or if you're taking the piss...

if you are serious, much as i respect your descision. you're a fool.

Katielondon
10-10-2007, 01:37 AM
well i was happy to donae and i really aim to advance through the church, 20k isnt my life savings or anywhere close to it, and im quite happy to spend a little money if thats what it takes to reach spiritual enlightenment so flame away if you have to.

Digital_Ice
10-10-2007, 01:41 AM
I spent 20k on a new kitchen. Maybe spiritual enlightenment is in my toaster.

Spartan117warrior
10-10-2007, 01:43 AM
I spent 20k on a new kitchen. Maybe spiritual enlightenment is in my toaster.

Well the way to a man's heart is through his stomach apparently. Maybe that holds true for his spirit as well. And my spirit, right now, is craving Oreos.

Scotti
10-10-2007, 02:21 AM
Where do you guys get off?, ok so I'm a Scientologist too and I have to be honest and say I've lurked for a while because I admire Keiras work but I couldn't help but notice you lay into this poor girl for her beliefs.
Thankfully she has picked a path which will benifit her greatly and I hope it does, please don't pick on her for something you don't understand.

barrington
10-10-2007, 02:35 AM
My insides hurt so much. :icon_lol:

Mandy
10-10-2007, 03:05 AM
Please don't pick on her for something you don't understand.


Oh sorry, I'd let you teach me, but I don't have any money. :(

I don't think any of us have a "problem" with Katie's choice, but it's different strokes for different folks. Welcome to the forums.

Ranman
10-10-2007, 05:58 AM
Where do you guys get off?, ok so I'm a Scientologist too and I have to be honest and say I've lurked for a while because I admire Keiras work but I couldn't help but notice you lay into this poor girl for her beliefs.
Thankfully she has picked a path which will benifit her greatly and I hope it does, please don't pick on her for something you don't understand.

We are equal opportunity fun makers here. We would make fun of you if you worship Scientology or a potato. Personally I'd rather worship a potato, but thats just me.

Digital_Ice
10-10-2007, 06:17 AM
Praise be to the almighty Maris Piper!

lol

sorry. couldn't resist.

Mandy
10-10-2007, 06:45 AM
Personally I'd rather worship a potato, but thats just me.

Well of course. You're at least guaranteed a nutritional meal whereas you have no idea what Scientology would get you. Totally agreed.

Liam
10-10-2007, 06:55 AM
I just want to see Haz jump on a sofa with Oprah Winfrey.

Hazzle
10-10-2007, 11:42 AM
More mockery :dontknowa. Welcome Scotti, ignore these guys, they wouldn't know enlightenment if it bit them on the arse repeatedly and then bummed them violently. Tell us a bit about yourself.

hasselbrad
10-10-2007, 12:48 PM
Well the way to a man's heart is through his stomach apparently.

Actually, the way to a man's heart is with a sharp knife, between the third and fourth ribs, just left of the sternum.
:icon_eplu

Katielondon
10-10-2007, 01:15 PM
can this thread just be locked please?:dontknowa

Spartan117warrior
10-10-2007, 01:22 PM
Where do you guys get off?, ok so I'm a Scientologist too and I have to be honest and say I've lurked for a while because I admire Keiras work but I couldn't help but notice you lay into this poor girl for her beliefs.
Thankfully she has picked a path which will benifit her greatly and I hope it does, please don't pick on her for something you don't understand.

If you've noticed, I never actually attacked her (or yours for that matter) beliefs. I merely questioned them. I do believe there is a difference.

More mockery :dontknowa. Welcome Scotti, ignore these guys, they wouldn't know enlightenment if it bit them on the arse repeatedly and then bummed them violently. Tell us a bit about yourself.


And taking that exclusivist approach to anyone who disagrees with your faith isn't going to get you anyone to agree with you.

Actually, the way to a man's heart is with a sharp knife, between the third and fourth ribs, just left of the sternum.
:icon_eplu


Make sure you use proper sterilization and clean instruments, like a rusty spoon. Can't let guys have a painless surgery.

Digital_Ice
10-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Tom Cruise is planning to build a bunker at his Colorado home to protect his family in the event of an intergalactic alien attack.

Tom is reportedly fearful that deposed galactic ruler 'Xenu' is plotting an evil revenge attack on Earth.

According to American magazine Star, a source said: "Tom is planning to build a US$10 million bunker under his Telluride estate." The home can be seen below.

"It's a self-contained underground shelter with a high tech air purifying shelter."

The facility is said to have enough room for ten people - including wife Katie Holmes, 17-month-old daughter Suri and his adopted children Isabella, 14, and Connor, 12.

oh dear god.

Ranman
10-10-2007, 07:31 PM
Lmfao

Mandy
10-10-2007, 07:33 PM
And who made that up? :p