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michael22
31-05-2007, 03:37 AM
I was reading way back into th KKW archives and I noticed it used to have a lot more politial andphilosophical discussion, with ducks usually proving himself right and saying fuck you all. So I thought to bring back the old days. This forum will be dedicated to recent issue that occured in hword today.

We shall start with a more simplistic one, Given Doichland's new war on vieo gmes is violence in video games acceptabl/should it be banned?

rani
31-05-2007, 05:35 AM
it depends on the foreign policy and domestic values and culture of a country. you are from canada. most of us are not. but us still differ from one another. we have differences. how could we start?

unless you are inviting for solidarity with specific campaign.

Mandy
31-05-2007, 05:45 AM
This? NOW?! At NEWBIE SEASON!?!

preposterous.

Leonie
31-05-2007, 08:03 AM
Violence in video games does not teach children anything they haven't already seen on TV. It might even be a way for an angry kid to let off some steam.

However, I feel that parents have a responsibility to ensure that their child does not go mental. If you think your kid and violent video games are not a good match, it is your responsiblity as a parent to separate the two. Don't blame the company who made the game: you made the kid.

Timmy
31-05-2007, 09:34 AM
Violence in video games does not teach children anything they haven't already seen on TV. It might even be a way for an angry kid to let off some steam.

However, I feel that parents have a responsibility to ensure that their child does not go mental. If you think your kid and violent video games are not a good match, it is your responsiblity as a parent to separate the two. Don't blame the company who made the game: you made the kid.

I whole heartedly agree.

I'm a pretty good example. I listen to death metal, love violent video games and movies, and for the best part of my memory, my mother and father let me do pretty much what I wanted within reason. With all the violence in my life, I'd like to think i'm a nice guy, no body wishes to kill me and vice versa.
I've never done drugs, never been in trouble with the police, and i've never had a drinking problem.

I think that people who act on films, games and music have something wrong with them to begin with. But again, I agree it's up to the family to recognise this if they haven't done already, but unfortunatly, it's not always that easy.

hasselbrad
31-05-2007, 01:26 PM
If someone is dumb/crazy/angry enough to allow themselves to act out the things they see in a video game, something was probably going to get them before long anyway. It's a parenting problem, pure and simple. The problem I see is that parents are becoming less and less involved in their children's lives. I fear this will lead to more and more incidents of children simply acting out what they see on the screen because they have little, if any, context in reality. Like it or not, music, television and video games have a large impact on popular culture.
That said, I'd like to see companies show a little more responsibility when it comes to developing games.

AureaMediocritas
31-05-2007, 03:04 PM
The game "Americaīs Army" developed by the U.S. army is a "propagame" designed to, I quote from the FAQ of their website : "We want the whole world to know how great the U.S. Army is".
Now... is encouraging violence in games evil ? No, it canīt be, because it is backed by Godīs most "anti-evil" force on the planet.
Due to this logical conclusion, there are games whose violence content clearly serves a good purpose; they should not be forbidden. Games allowing the player to act as a Mujahideen are evil... so they should be prohibited. No hypocrisy allowed... :)
Does violence in games affect children ? I donīt know. All I know is that it has become fashionable to discuss such topics during breaks at school : these kids know a lot about weapon names, ammo caliber, tactics how to kill an enemy etc.
It remains fictional of course... but it nevertheless creates a certain enthusiasm for arms and the violence they cause.

Leonie
31-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Is there a special reason that you have for turning every thread into an anti-American one? :icon_razz

And I take it you have never heard of a game called Counterstrike?

hasselbrad
31-05-2007, 04:09 PM
Is there a special reason that you have for turning every thread into an anti-American one? :icon_razz

And I take it you have never heard of a game called Counterstrike?

Thank you for allowing me to take a pass on that.

Scotsworth
31-05-2007, 05:02 PM
I feel like it's a fine line. I wouldn't let my 4 year old play games where people are getting their heads blown off etc...but I started playing violent games when I was probably 10ish (if you count fighting games as violent), and I have no violence issues. I really think it's the responsibility of the parent to explain to their kid about violence and all that if they are letting them play. Of course, I never had it explained to me, but, then again, it seemed pretty logical that while I was using a grenade launcher to blow up a zombie in Quake...it would be insane to do the same thing in real life.

Actually, come to think of it, the only limitation I had until I was 14ish was about violent games with other people. Just because my dad didn't like games where you're killing other actual humans. For example, I wouldn't ever think of letting like an 8 year old kid play Grand Theft Auto. I dunno, just thoughts...I think parents should really know their children's limits, and if the kid has emotional issues, don't show him games where he's killing people.

Digital_Ice
31-05-2007, 05:15 PM
I own, and have played almost every single game that is considered too violent and corrupting. GTA is a prime example... its the most widely used scapegoat for fucked up children. I have played every GTA game... the first was released in 1997... i was 10. I have never gone on a killing spree etc etc yada yada or any of the bullshit they say it causes people to do... because.. get this... IT'S JUST A FUCKING GAME. If anything, games like that serve as a way to vent frustration... rather than actually causing it. Anyone who does shit like that has to be pretty unstable anyway... and with all the violence in the world outside of games both fictional and real, its a bit small minded to blame video games. Sure the world would be a much better place if murders etc didn't happen. but the human race is NEVER going to achieve peace. it's in our nature to destroy ourselves.

You can't bubble wrap up the world to protect the few fucked up individuals the world would be better off without. This whole violence in video games is as stupid as the excessive 1984-style "big brother" world that is happening more and more.

On a side note... I do love how Governments etc feel they can agree on rules.... then change them at a later stage. (Amendment I - U.S. Constitution, UDHR - Article 19 and ECHR - Article 9 anyone?)

Porcelain_Doll
31-05-2007, 05:51 PM
My heart jumped when I saw the forum topic, "wow, philosophy, yeah!!!"...but FUCKING VIDEOGAMES?!?!

I have an eight year old brother who's addicted to Star Wars games, and used to like Call of Duty, Burnout, Need For Speed, etc. I never saw him play with toy guns or pretend to throw granades. He's just a kid with good knowledge on WWII weaponry. He's into machines, how they work, how they were built; not how to use them to kill.
I never saw him say anything about driving like a maniac. He rather said: "Wow, if I did this in real life, I'd get killed!". He's interested in cars, how they're built, what materials are used, and knew how to say "Lamborghini" before I knew what that even was.
The boundaries are well established. And no, he hasn't swung a lightsaber at me yet.

Now, I agree they can influence a young child's mind, but look around. Wars, hunger, strikes, homeless, violence.....kids are growing in this environment and I don't really think they will be cold blooded assassins 'cause they used to play Jurassic Park. The world is much worse than games.
Besides, they are just games.

Otherwise Ice would be already locked up :p

hasselbrad
31-05-2007, 05:56 PM
I own, and have played almost every single game that is considered too violent and corrupting. GTA is a prime example... its the most widely used scapegoat for fucked up children. I have played every GTA game... the first was released in 1997... i was 10.

Says the guy holding a banstick encrusted with blood and hair. :p

AureaMediocritas
31-05-2007, 07:24 PM
Is there a special reason that you have for turning every thread into an anti-American one? :icon_razz

My apologies :) .
In fact, I merely used the example to show games can be instruments for institutions that might seem blameless (army<government<country). I just couldīnt resist to add the usual salt. Sorry.

Personally I feel that the whole debate is even contradictory, mainly for the reason that, when there were no computers, kids used to play outside (which is healthy, I agree) but they also used (naturally inborn I think) violence... From what is left of my memories, I had more than one bloody nose, several times a broken arm etc., all coming from brawls and fights... I guess it would be stupid to say that games are mainly responsible for violent behaviour.

I once read an interesting article about the topic when there was the Erfurt massacre in Germany... with everyone blaming games, especially Counterstrike. The author claimed that on average, such games brutalize every gamer... but the immense majority of them are only concerned superficially. I think this is a good explanation : when you give someone a head shot in CS, you cannot say you donīt feel a thing. You are at the very least pleased you killed the rival, if not happy at the funny amount of blood which testifies to your triumph. Also, you are in a way prepared by what happens in the fictional world (blood, agonizing sounds etc.) to what normally happens in real life. You cause them in the fictional world, but you donīt transpose it to reality... except if you are mentally deranged.

Personally I would say that a deranged person would find his own way to mess around... but games give them a sort of "laboratory" they wouldnīt have otherwise. Thanks for reading :icon_lol: .

michael22
01-06-2007, 01:35 PM
My heart jumped when I saw the forum topic, "wow, philosophy, yeah!!!"...but FUCKING VIDEOGAMES?!?!

GO ahead and change the subject I made the thread open ended for all philisophical discussion. I just thought that was an eas start. if you go back far enough we used to debate god morality erverything.

I have played a fair share of games that had violence in them, but most of them had a plot or some such thing that took it beyond the realm of pointless violence.

michael22
05-06-2007, 02:19 AM
Why is there a need for people to express anger with violence as opposed to just leaviing each other the fuck alone?

Leonie
05-06-2007, 08:20 AM
Here's my two cents: I think anger is generally expressed when people feel powerless. As a consequence, minorities are more likely to use violence to get their point across, since they often don't have the same political means to.

That, however, does not make it alright, especially not when those use violence claim to be doing in the name of a religion. After all, most every religion states that harming people is a no-no.

Urbanebula
05-06-2007, 08:28 AM
Sorry to jump back to this but I hate the whole arguement against violence in videogames!

I've been a gamer since I was 5 and since then I have been in two fights. Two. One of which I didn't even start.

God, I was playing Duke Nukem 3D (18) when I was 7. I've turned out ok.

Right, where's that bag of kittens? I feel like kicking something!
(Joking, I'm a big cat fan and don't agree with animal cruelty.)

As for other political issues the whole system is fucked really. Not much I can say on the matter other than;

The government need to stop lying to everyone. Keeping the truth from us all doesn't protect us!

Fiirdraak
05-06-2007, 10:47 AM
Ok, guess I have to say my mind as well.

The media is a powerful tool to change people's mind about things. It seems that in this particular time in the history of the world videogames are just the easiest target for concerned politicians, parents and other authorities. One reason that makes videogames an easy target is the fact that there isn't much they can do to defend themselves. They can't say they don't make violent games because they do make them. The only acceptable solution/answer they could give to these authorities would be to stop making games with explicit violence and gore, to un-evolve back to Pong and such ludological games. The major difference between videogames and movies (violent ones, I mean) is the role the viewer takes. In movies you follow the characters commit violent acts, killings, brutality and all kinds of back-stabbing. In videogames you are not the by-stander but commit these same acts yourself. This is what makes it difficult to defend the games industry. To those authorities it doesn't matter if there is or is not a motive for all the violence. They can't see past the masquerade of the graphical content. However, certain game developers do make games with questionable content for purpose. For example GTA series. In real life it would be horrible to do what the characters/players do in the game, but in the game world it becomes more like a play with toy soldiers or other action figures. Interesting is, that even if the GTA series has been such a smash hit, the publisher Take2 is constantly in court to fight law sues. Someone really wants to drag them down for good. And it seems that the tactic is working because Take2 is going straight to bankrup.

Still, it is clearly wrong to jduge the games for school shootings and other similar violence. People have killed other people as long as people have existed. As someone earlier said, it is in our nature. We can't live in peace with each other. Someone's greed eventually takes over and then the brutality for a piece of land, money or something else starts. Not to mention that in US where most of the known school shootings take place, guns industry is blooming. It is quite easy to get a weapon and so many people own one or more firearms, licensed ones too. And since there is also the National Guard, a bunch of regular joes who all own a rifle in case an emergency occurs. So, people really should ask, what is the matter with these violent acts, supposed to be because of videogames.

It is because of the ideological ground, that's totally twisted. They feed the culture of arming every citizen in the planet and then say videogames were the reason why this dude killed those schoolmates if his. Right. There is a reason for the age certifications in the gameboxes. If it reads 18+ you don't give it to your 12 year old kid who doesn't get the difference of real life and virtual world. Parents are really the root of this problem. If they would pay more attention to their kids and what goes on in their minds they avoided a lot of problems.

rani
05-06-2007, 01:02 PM
video games containing violence are most likely the same with tv and movies containing materials that influence child's behavior and value.

Fiirdraak is correct. and his proposal is acceptable but with few reservations on my part.

movies and the like are classified to R, parental guidance and GP.

some Video games are intended for adults only. it is just so happen that kids nowadays are clever as adults in downloading things.

Digital_Ice
05-06-2007, 04:38 PM
There is a reason for the age certifications in the gameboxes. If it reads 18+ you don't give it to your 12 year old kid who doesn't get the difference of real life and virtual world. Parents are really the root of this problem. If they would pay more attention to their kids and what goes on in their minds they avoided a lot of problems.

he has a point, if you think the games are corrupting your children... don't buy them the games! they can't buy them on their own, and once they are 18 you can disown them and they're not your problem any more. :p

Fiirdraak
05-06-2007, 08:43 PM
some Video games are intended for adults only. it is just so happen that kids nowadays are clever as adults in downloading things.

The idea doesn't work only on the base that they can't buy the games. As you said, they can nowadays download them from the net without their parents' keeping an eye on what they do. Parents' control is supposed to be vast and at the same time in many different forms. One is the thing that they don't buy them the games. The other is that they actively try to prevent the kids from doing their thing 'under the radar'. We all know by now, that even the youngest braniac kid can access the net and surf to some site that gives them chance to start downloading explicit content. So, why not stop it, because it happens in most cases. Kids seem to be like nature is, they will always, ALWAYS, find a way to circle around their parents' watchful eyes. If they have access to computer with an internet connection, put some barriers, NetNanny for example. You can easily type which kind of sites are forbidden, you can even write certain URLs that are blocked, if they aren't blocked with the regular categorial choices.

One of the most important things parents can do is to spend time with their kids. Go out, have a hobby, teach them to read books instead of watching TV. Tell them about the marvellous nature that surrounds them, teach them to appreciate it. Don't leave them by themselves just because you want to have time for yourselves. TV and videogames aren't supposed to watch over for your kids. TV and videogames aren't teaching material. Parents, you spend hundreds of weeks just for watching TV, dozens of weeks to drive to work and back. Wouldn't it be time to spend a few weeks with your kids?

Hazzle
06-06-2007, 12:45 AM
Violence in video games does not teach children anything they haven't already seen on TV. It might even be a way for an angry kid to let off some steam.

However, I feel that parents have a responsibility to ensure that their child does not go mental. If you think your kid and violent video games are not a good match, it is your responsiblity as a parent to separate the two. Don't blame the company who made the game: you made the kid.

Was there really any need to continue the thread after this post?

As usual the wisdom of Elle puts us all to shame. So well put, too.

Pygmalion
06-06-2007, 01:18 AM
Hmm I think that violence in video games can have an effect on your mental state.
I used to play Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas a lot, and when I got into my car (in real life) I'd have weird urges sometimes to run over pedestrians or ram cars if they were going slow around round-abouts and such.

Leonie
06-06-2007, 09:09 AM
Hmm I think that violence in video games can have an effect on your mental state.
I used to play Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas a lot, and when I got into my car (in real life) I'd have weird urges sometimes to run over pedestrians or ram cars if they were going slow around round-abouts and such.

I'm the one sitting in the backseat egging dad on. "If you hit that grannie, you get bonus points!"

Doesn't mean we do it.

michael22
07-06-2007, 02:42 AM
Now here is another question, if people find a harmful truth should they reveal it?

Pygmalion
07-06-2007, 08:02 AM
I'm the one sitting in the backseat egging dad on. "If you hit that grannie, you get bonus points!"

Doesn't mean we do it.

True. I suppose if you're going to be driven by a game or song to kill people then chances are you would have done it anyway.

rani
07-06-2007, 09:43 AM
One of the most important things parents can do is to spend time with their kids.


Yes. We cannot lobby to any legislative body to ban the production of video games (violent). it is unfair for the producer for it is intended for the adults. the negligence will be on the part of the parents. it must be a campaign, education drive for parent to take care of their kids.


not even discourage them to watch tv and movies. kids also benefit from them in some ways.

just be responsible. in fact, there are no (yet) studies showing that criminal offenses due to the behavior of the offenders corelated to video games with violent materials.


my Lord teaches us: teach your children all the time. (love your neighbor, honor your parents, serve and help one another, do no harm, do not be a murderer, etc...)