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hasselbrad
16-04-2007, 06:37 PM
Death toll increasing. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html)
A shooting at Virgina Tech is now thought to have taken over thirty lives.

hasselbrad
16-04-2007, 10:02 PM
33 confirmed dead, including the shooter.

Kelsey
16-04-2007, 10:51 PM
I was just reading the coverage of the shooting....very sad. It seems to me there has been more school shootings in the last year or so than I ever remember. AOL said that this Virginia Tech shooting has now become the largest mass shooting in U.S. history.

hasselbrad
17-04-2007, 12:42 AM
Why can't these assholes just put the gun in their own mouth and end it? Why do they have to go and spread their goddamn misery around to thirty other families too?
:dontknowa

michael22
17-04-2007, 04:40 AM
It is really sad, I do not know what else to say.

hasselbrad
17-04-2007, 08:29 PM
This (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html) is a "one act play" that he had written for a creative writing class. Wow. Just...wow.
Another student said that at the beginning of the semester in a British Lit class, they went around the room and everyone introduced themselves. Everyone except him. On the class sign in sheet, he simply wrote a question mark. They said that the English Department is really small and close knit, but that no one really knew him. He kept, almost severely, to himself.

Porcelain_Doll
17-04-2007, 09:23 PM
oh, god....what is that? how come those teachers didn't pick up on that? and his family? oh, god, that's just awful...

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 03:12 AM
Apparently one of the teachers did, but no one above her did anything about it. As for his writing, it looks like something a seven or eight year old would have written.
And now, the news here is about some 15 year old asswipe who sent a letter claiming there was going to be a Columbine style massacre at one of the local high schools. He thought it was a big joke.
:dontknowa

Porcelain_Doll
18-04-2007, 04:39 PM
yesterday it was all over the tv. Plus, I went into some random swedish site and bumped into it there as well.

a family friend, who used to live in Virginia and is now in Boston told us a bit more. Apparently there was a Uruguayan student there who got hurt. :icon_frow

we're all quite concerned...my mum sent an urgent email to one of her best friends, whose kid goes to Virginia Tech.

people like that just don't realise how much further these things go, it's beyond personal misery and particular insanity!

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 04:50 PM
Yep...for the most part, they're just self-centered little pricks who make no effort and then wonder why they get picked on. If you go through life giving everyone the silent treatment and refuse any and all social advances, guess what? People are going to look at you differently. After a while, they'll stop trying to be your friend. And yes, eventually, you will be the target of ridicule.
It sounds like he fits the classic profile. Loner who turns obsessive, and can't understand why the object of his affection (the girl from the dorm shooting) doesn't love him the way he does her. So he kills her and then kills as many people as he can to "get back" at the world that had done him wrong.
There is a special place in Hell for the Chos and Klebolds of the world. Hopefully they get to spend eternity with one arm behind their backs and their heads in a toilet full of burning feces, being bullied by Stalin and Hussein.
:)
I hope your mother's friend's child is okay.

Porcelain_Doll
18-04-2007, 04:53 PM
There is a special place in Hell for the Chos and Klebolds of the world. Hopefully they get to spend eternity with one arm behind their backs and their heads in a toilet full of burning feces, being bullied by Stalin and Hussein.

You forgot Hitler.
He's so there.

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 05:06 PM
You forgot Hitler.
He's so there.

Yeah, but Hitler always seemed like the bullied guy who became a monster, whereas Stalin and Hussein were just thugs who bullied their ways to the top.
I guess Atilla the Hun could be dunking Hitler's head in the john.
:p

Porcelain_Doll
18-04-2007, 05:08 PM
I guess Atilla the Hun could be dunking Hitler's head in the john.:p

My money's on Vlad of Wallachia. (aka The Impaler :icon_eplu )
Germany and Romania weren't on very nice terms. MUAHA

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 05:10 PM
My money's on Vlad of Wallachia. (aka The Impaler :icon_eplu )
Germany and Romania weren't on very nice terms. MUAHA

How could I forget Vlad?
A coworker used to call me Brad the Impaler.
:icon_eplu

Hazzle
18-04-2007, 05:25 PM
A coworker used to call me Brad the Impaler.

Praising your sexual prowess, no doubt.

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 05:39 PM
Praising your sexual prowess, no doubt.

No doubt! :p

Foeni
18-04-2007, 07:26 PM
*cough*topic*cough* :p

Right, let's expand this thread a bit. Do you think this just shows the need for a change of the law?

Foeni
18-04-2007, 08:45 PM
We agree??? How peculiar ;)
Seriously, I don't think banning guns will solve the problem alone. But limiting the sales, and making them harder to get will probably help alot..

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 09:10 PM
Contrary to what you may have seen or heard, we do not sell guns in the supermarket.
You have to buy them at the gas station.
;)
Seriously though, access to guns is a problem. Driver's licenses/cars and guns are two things that Americans have far too easy of a time getting.
However, banning guns altogether simply will not work. Monday's killings took place in an area that was deemed "gun free", and we all see how well that worked. I wonder how many people would still be alive if another student or a teacher had had a gun and known how to use it.

Norseman
18-04-2007, 09:47 PM
The problem would easily be avoided if just more people had guns! They could just shoot back!. People are so stupid for not seeing this, if all teachers had a shotgun under their desk, he would never have gotten very far would he?.
Carrying a gun should not be a legal right, it should have been a LAW!. :dontknowa


What happened is tragic and I am very sorry for the families which has to bare the sorrow. I bet some of those students would have done great in their life. Sad to see that 1 is all it takes to blow away all the hope and talent.

hasselbrad
18-04-2007, 09:55 PM
Actually, everyone should have to smoke pot. That would mellow these fuckers out so they are so high strung.

He sent materials to NBC between shootings. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting)
Unreal.

Leonie
19-04-2007, 07:38 AM
I think it is *such* a mistake for the media to show the footage to the public.

Not only is it exactly what the disturbed kid wanted, in itself a reason to burn the videos or restrict them to police investigations, it might inspire other unstable souls to step forward and do the same.

AureaMediocritas
19-04-2007, 10:26 AM
I do agree.

Especially because he looked so damn cool with his arms stretched holding two guns. I was impressed. I want to be so cool myself :( .

hasselbrad
19-04-2007, 01:33 PM
I do agree.

Especially because he looked so damn cool with his arms stretched holding two guns. I was impressed. I want to be so cool myself :( .

Be sure to wear the vest, though. It lends 'shooter cred' to your photo album/manifesto. That, and the hat on backwards.
I wonder how long it will be before his parents lack of involvement is called into question. From what his suitemates have said, they just sort of dumped him off in August, and to their knowledge, haven't really been in touch since. One said that he never saw him on the phone with anyone, including his parents. That seems a bit strange to me. I couldn't go two weeks without my parents calling and tracking me down.
As for the media coverage, I'm a bit torn. The selfish, morbid part of me wants to see inside his head, though from what I've seen so far, it's just a jumbled up mess of misdirected anger and resentment with roots in his own unwillingness to be part of society. The rational part of me agrees with Leonie that the coverage may be priming the charge on another misguided timebomb. I agree with one of the talking heads who said the media should really back off the talk of this killing being a 'record', noting that records are made to be broken.
Perhaps if the media does a real smear job on the kid, others will think twice simply because they don't want people to be laughing at what's found out about them after they're dead. I know it sounds weird, but if this kid's actions and motives can be ridiculed to the point of making him into the assclown he apparently was, what he did will seem less of an option to the next assclown who thinks his life in the suburbs is such a living hell.
I think our mistake in the past has been giving these shooters some sort of credibility by dealing with them so gravely, thereby lending some semblance of credence to their motives. If there's one thing the Klebolds and Chos of the world fear, it's ridicule. Ridicule, in many instances, is what leads them to commit these horrific acts. Consequently, these horrific acts they commit that are meant to show the world that they aren't to be ridiculed or trifled with. I don't want to hear bleeding hearts in the media talking about how the university failed him by not getting him help. I want to hear them place the blame on his shoulders for not attempting to make friends. I want to hear them sneer about what a loser he was for taking pictures of girls in class that he couldn't screw up the courage to smile at. And then, perhaps his roommates could be interviewed about the inordinate amount of time he spent in the bathroom 'combing his hair'. Don't lionize him as some sort of disturbed, misunderstood loner but rather as a whiny loser sitting on the john looking at pictures of girls' legs, choking his itty-bitty chicken.

AureaMediocritas
19-04-2007, 01:53 PM
From what I have gathered, he insists in his messages that everybody else (or some mysterious "you" ?) is responsible for what he did. He is not the sicko,everybody else is, he merely had his "revenge". Typical paranoid "victim" logics.

And because he is surely not the only left-out slightly disturbed person In the U.S. feeling hatred towards evil society, you will always have such extreme outbursts of frustration unless you start restricting weapon access. Or at least making sure the customers fulfills some minimal conditions of mental health.
There have been and there will always be freaks :icon_poke

hasselbrad
19-04-2007, 02:06 PM
Virginia Tech was a gun free zone.
The Luby's in Killeen, Texas forbid customers with carry permits to bring their weapons into the restaurant.
Over 50 people died in those two shootings.
In the Luby's shooting, a woman who had a carry permit had left her gun in the car to comply with the restaurant chain's regulations. She was well trained and knew how to use her weapon, but instead, had to watch twenty some odd people (including her own parents) gunned down in cold blood. If she had had her gun on her, countless lives could have been saved.
Restricting gun access doesn't really work, because the psychopaths that commit these crimes will do whatever is necessary to kill as many people as possible. Restricting gun access only prevents law abiding citizens from defending themselves.

Foeni
19-04-2007, 04:04 PM
But how hard is it to get a gun? Don't you think that requiring some sort of medical certificate from a psyciatrist that you're relatively sane could be a good idea (I don't know what you have to do to get a gun)?
I'm not against the idea of having the right to own a gun to defend yourself, that's not what I'm saying...

hasselbrad
19-04-2007, 04:20 PM
There isn't a doctor in America that would sign a document like that. They are already having enough trouble paying their malpractice insurance without opening up a whole new avenue through which they could be sued.
I'm sure there will be a push for stiffer background checks, and I can't say as I disagree. Perhaps a check could have seen the recent psychiatric problems and thrown up some red flags, but then, hindsight is 20/20. It's a lot easier to read the warning signs once someone has gone over the edge.

Leonie
19-04-2007, 04:23 PM
Given the fact that my dad, a trained detective, has to go through all sorts of tests to carry his gun (when he was injured during a physical test and missed the gun test later that same day, he had to hand in his gun at the office, even though he was taking the test a few days later), fronting up at a shop and being able to buy a gun just like that seems too easy.

Ranman
19-04-2007, 04:29 PM
But how hard is it to get a gun?

Its different in every state. In Virginia all you need
is to show ID. The same idiots they give driver's license
to can have a gun. Doesn't that make the rest of the
world feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

hasselbrad
19-04-2007, 04:34 PM
Its different in every state. In Virginia all you need
is to show ID. The same idiots they give driver's license
to can have a gun. Doesn't that make the rest of the
world feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Two deadliest objects...a car and a gun. Just sign your name on the line and prove you are breathing.

Digital_Ice
19-04-2007, 07:33 PM
add a night of heavy drinking and you've got the makings of a fantastic evening.....

Ranman
19-04-2007, 07:40 PM
Where's Jet been? This shooter looks like an older Jet.
Did Jet sneak into the states without me knowing

Norseman
19-04-2007, 10:34 PM
Virginia Tech was a gun free zone.
The Luby's in Killeen, Texas forbid customers with carry permits to bring their weapons into the restaurant.
Over 50 people died in those two shootings.
In the Luby's shooting, a woman who had a carry permit had left her gun in the car to comply with the restaurant chain's regulations. She was well trained and knew how to use her weapon, but instead, had to watch twenty some odd people (including her own parents) gunned down in cold blood. If she had had her gun on her, countless lives could have been saved.
Restricting gun access doesn't really work, because the psychopaths that commit these crimes will do whatever is necessary to kill as many people as possible. Restricting gun access only prevents law abiding citizens from defending themselves.Restrickting gun access doesn't work on the real criminals no. But it does work on those who aren't, the "normal" joe that gets pissed off at his girlfriend or something like it. It's those guys that do the damage, not the lifelong criminal. Everytime there's been a shooting like this people that knew the shooter goes "I whould never thought he would do something like this, he was so nice in class..." etc. If he/she couldn't pick up one of he's dad m16's or one of grandpa's shotguns. Or buy one AND ammo over some damn counter he would maybe "just" done some beating or something. It wouldn't solve the whole gun problem in a sec but it could do a difference if just some of the future shooters, couldn't get a gun and ammo in under 10 min.

Leonie
20-04-2007, 06:21 AM
I was worried this might happen. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21589299-2,00.html)

AureaMediocritas
20-04-2007, 09:16 AM
AK-47 and explosives !
Where I live, youŽd be first priority of the modest government security forces with such equipment. Do you really get such stuff in the U.S. ??

hasselbrad
20-04-2007, 01:15 PM
Restrickting gun access doesn't work on the real criminals no. But it does work on those who aren't, the "normal" joe that gets pissed off at his girlfriend or something like it. It's those guys that do the damage, not the lifelong criminal. Everytime there's been a shooting like this people that knew the shooter goes "I whould never thought he would do something like this, he was so nice in class..." etc. If he/she couldn't pick up one of he's dad m16's or one of grandpa's shotguns. Or buy one AND ammo over some damn counter he would maybe "just" done some beating or something. It wouldn't solve the whole gun problem in a sec but it could do a difference if just some of the future shooters, couldn't get a gun and ammo in under 10 min.

If they 'pick up one of grandpas', that's called theft. Same as if they smashed a glass counter and stole a gun from it. Furthermore, one cannot simply buy a handgun in ten minutes, even in Virginia. Cho purchased his first gun some time ago and was forced to wait for several weeks until he was able to purchase the second.
In addition, there should have been a red-flag raised by his previous mental troubles that would have prevented him from purchasing either gun. However, as with most laws in the U.S., the power to enforce the laws lags behind the power to legislate, so people like Cho slip through the cracks. With over 300,000,000 people in fifty, largely autonomous states, there are a lot of cracks.
That said, I do agree that new guns and ammunition should only be available through licensed dealers. Of course, Wal-Mart is the gold standard when it comes to tracking items and who bought what, so perhaps we should just sell all guns through them.

Jacoby
20-04-2007, 05:41 PM
AK-47 and explosives !
Where I live, youŽd be first priority of the modest government security forces with such equipment. Do you really get such stuff in the U.S. ??

Well, the AK-47 costs 400 tickets and the explosives are 300 tickets at any Chuck E. Cheese location.

duckula
20-04-2007, 11:04 PM
America has a gun culture. Cultural momentum takes years to change so I don't reckon more laws is going to work. Better training for educational staff on what to look for as regards troubled kids (not just any kid who draws an Uzi). Maybe a national CCW policy with enforceable training standards so ordinary folk can protect themselves from nutters and criminals.

Education, not legislation.

Hazzle
22-04-2007, 02:30 PM
The duck speaks sense. We actually disagree when it comes to gun control (I'd opposed a national CCW program, or any increase in CCW at all), but even though I think the US needs greater gun control, it can't happen overnight. Like Ducky said, it's a cultural issue as much as a legal one. You can't change a nation's entire culture overnight,

Equally, like Brad said, the issue with the Virginia Tech massacre is that current laws should have been enough to prevent it happening, but weren't. It's an enforcement issue as much as a legislative one. There needs to be greater investment in enforcement, and also (and in this regard I do agree with Ducks) in training educational staff to spot troubled kids before they turn into gun-toting nutjobs.

Ranman
23-04-2007, 01:28 PM
To update the world, certain leaders here in the wonderful USA are saying we should let all college students have guns. Instead of keeping guns from the mentally ill or banning all guns. Strangely enough I'm for this. Let them kill each other and after several thousand students are dead maybe America will wake up and do something right for a change

hasselbrad
23-04-2007, 01:39 PM
To update the world, certain leaders here in the wonderful USA are saying we should let all college students have guns. Instead of keeping guns from the mentally ill or banning all guns. Strangely enough I'm for this. Let them kill each other and after several thousand students are dead maybe America will wake up and do something right for a change

Maybe it's the only way to bail out Social Security. Make sure a smaller percentage get to actually collect benefits.

kingdumbass
23-04-2007, 01:52 PM
I have been very interested in this shooter guy ever since the news of the massacre broke....
The more I learn about him, the more he reminds me of myself when I was about 15. A look at his writings (which can be found on The Smoking Gun) will show that he was terribly immature, and that is what I think was the REAL problem with him. He was sort of suspended in the mentality of a middle schooler, even though he was in college.

The guy started out as an innocent outcast, became bitter, and never grew out of it. Nerd Rage became the only thing he knew. And when that happens, it just grows and grows. When I was about 14, I was just like him, but by the time I was about 16, I had matured somewhat, and found some friends. Beyond that, we grew up together. The 14 year-old me would have thought the VA shooter was cool; but the 26 year-old me sees him for what he was -- a complete jackass.

Mental illness, gun control...Blah blah blah. This guy was a fucking idiot. That simple truth answers all questions about this. And has anyone noticed that he talked just like Napolean Dynamite? Seriously -- YouTube his videos, and you'll see.

PS -- You'll have to pry my guns out of my cold, dead hand.

Ranman
23-04-2007, 08:54 PM
Mental illness, gun control...Blah blah blah. This guy was a fucking idiot.

PS -- You'll have to pry my guns out of my cold, dead hand.

So its ok with you to put guns in the hands of idiots?

and as for your terms on taking your gun..agreed

Hazzle
24-04-2007, 04:43 PM
Guns will end up there anyway.

Don't forget, under VA law the guy shouldn't have been able to procure arms. Yet he was. The system itself is flawed, and with the underlying gun culture in society, stricter laws might only serve to increase illegal trafficking in them, thereby making it even easier for lunatics to get them.

Ranman
24-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Guns will end up there anyway.

Don't forget, under VA law the guy shouldn't have been able to procure arms. Yet he was. The system itself is flawed, and with the underlying gun culture in society, stricter laws might only serve to increase illegal trafficking in them, thereby making it even easier for lunatics to get them.

Bulldinkies!

In countries where gun are banned, The murder rate is way down

Hazzle
24-04-2007, 05:37 PM
Read what I said. Underlying gun culture. You can't compare that to countries which haven't got that and therefore can easily enforce anti-gun laws. It's pointless having anti-gun laws in the US at this point, all it would do is force them underground. And I say that as a gun-control advocate, I hate the fact you cunts have a gun culture but you do.