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Foeni
31-01-2006, 04:18 PM
Some of you may have heard of this.
Muslim populations are now boycotting Danish companies because of the Muhammed cartoons printed in a Danish newspaper. It all started with these drawings printed in Denmark. Then ambassadors of the muslim world asked for a meeting with the Danish Prime Minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, to make him take legal steps towards punishing the newspaper. Rasmussen refused to meet with them, because it would be opening the possibility for the government to take action against the freedom of speach. An official apology on behalf of Denmark has also been demanded, which I find absolutely riddicoulus since Denmark has done nothing wrong. What do you think?

Read more about the boycot here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4664408.stm).

The pictures:
http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Annette_Carlsen_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Arne_Soerensen_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Claus_Seidel_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Erik_Abild_Soerensen_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.gif

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Franz_Fuchsel_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Jens_Julius_Hansen_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

This one is supposed to be the worst:
http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Kurt_Westergaard_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Lars_Refn_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Peder_Bundgaard_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Persian_Icon.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Poul_Erik_Poulsen_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

http://www.quickrob.com/political/Cartoons/Muhammed_Rasmus_Sand_Hoyer_Jyllands-Posten_Cartoons.jpg

I find it really stupid to print these pictures. The reaction was predictable.

marine
31-01-2006, 04:33 PM
I understand why the Prime Minister refuses to apologize, the opinion (if you consider that an oponion was stated by this cartoon) made by a newspaper doesn't reflect the opinion of a nation.
I guess I can try to understand why some have been pissed off to see somebody they consider as important thus described but it seems for me totally blown out of proportion. The newspaper editor has apologized (why else do they want?), so I don't understand why some embassies are closing. You can't hold an entire nation responsible for some caricatures (from what I can make from the article they weren't racist or heinous)

Sandra
02-02-2006, 12:20 AM
Hi there!

The same drawings were printed in a christian newspaper here in Norway not a long while ago.
The editor of the paper has already recieved several death threaths and an islamic terrorist cell has also gone out and stated that random places in both Norway and Denmark are potential targets.

I can understand that the charicatures are hurtful, as Muhammed is not supposed to be shown in pictures/drawings the same way as we show Jesus, Buddas ans so on. But the whole thing has indeed been blown out of proportion. We have something called freedom of speech in our country and even if one newspaper is in the wrong, it is 10000000 times worse to go out with threats to an intire country either the threats are based as boycots or as terrorism.

Foeni
05-02-2006, 11:30 AM
It's escalating to the extreme. Yesterday the Danish and the Norwegian Embassies were burned to the ground in Syria, and today the Danish consulate in Beirut has been set on fire as well. The hate the very nations giving them money! Stupid motherfuckers!

hasselbrad
06-02-2006, 01:02 PM
Any excuse to riot.
If they are so pissed off about this portrayal of Mohammed, why not take a hard look at the bloodthirsty extremists that have hijacked Islam and turned it into a Klan rally, minus the funny hats.
Gosh...I'm sorry you're offended.
You know what offends me?
People flying airplanes full of innocent civilians into buildings, killing thousands.
People setting off bombs in London's Underground and on buses.
People putting on vests full of C4 and nails and blowing up innocent civilians.
:mad:
Maybe I'm just thin skinned.

AureaMediocritas
06-02-2006, 01:44 PM
"We" should have slaughtered "them" more extensively during the Crusades.

Ranman
06-02-2006, 01:45 PM
That tittie looks tasty.
Thats what I would say

hasselbrad
06-02-2006, 02:25 PM
There are about 1.5 Milliard Muslims around the world. They have their own culture, their own point of view on life, their own history and they have every right to have it. How many of that Millard would have extremists thoughts or sympathies for extremism? This year a friend of my parents, a theatre maker, made a play named "Onze lieve vrouw van vlaanderen" and this was the fiche:
http://www.bechrist.be/images/0509olv-bloteborsten.jpg

I'm wondering Hasselbrad how would people in the states react if they saw this hanging in the streets?

Here in Belgium there was little protest, because people aren’t that religious anymore as they used to be 50 years ago.
Most Muslim countries are ACTIVE Muslim countries, like we had Catholics here 50 years ago.
I’m not saying I approve the way the Muslim community reacts on it, but don’t forget that “we” are the ones who provoked them.
If the media, constantly connects terrorism with Muslims (even you do it, you connect 1.5 milliard people with terorism), its normal that they get frustrated. In this way you push them towards terrorism.

You ask how we would react? Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell would get their BVDs in a bunch, a few Christian groups would protest and threaten to boycott, Janet Jackson's titty would pop out, and all would be forgotten.
I can assure you, no embassies would be burned down!
My point is, if the millions of moderate Muslims around the world would take an honest look at why things like this appear in newspapers, maybe they would work to marginalize those who have tarnished the image of Islam. It certainly isn't a Danish cartoonist.
The media connects Muslims with terrorism, because 99.95% of all terrorist acts around the world are carried out by people who pray toward Mecca. It's Islam that supposedly promises seventy some odd virgins upon martyrdom.
Images like this one make me wonder how many truly are "moderate".
http://boortz.com/images/muslim_cartoon_protests.jpg

Foeni
06-02-2006, 03:32 PM
There are roughly 1 billion muslims in the world. Luckily only few of them are extreme enough to become terrorists. I believe that the Muslim world's civilisation is 100 years behind of ours. For Christ's sake, they shoot their gun when they're happy of something! The conflict started with the Danish newspaper printing those cartoons. It may not have been clever but it wasn't illegal. They were reported to the police. They chose not to charge the newspaper. It was within the law of freedom of speech. The next thing that happens, it that 11 muslim ambassadors send a letter to the Danish Prime Minister asking for a meeting. He refuses. A delegation of imams living in Denmark goes to the Middle East to talk about these cartoons. The stupid fuckers are only trying to make a conflict with the western world. They showed 3 more pictures, 15 in all. One of them showed Muhammed as a paedophile monster. No cartoon like that were drawn. They also claimed that the cartoons was produced by the government because it in general is against muslims. Wrong. That's what really started this riot. The Arab League talking about trade boycot of Denmark. Demanding apologies from our Prime Minister. Insane! Oh and the mob also wanted an apology from our King. Only problem is, we don't have a king but a queen. That shows how well-informed they are.

Most of those burning the Danish flag and pictures of our Prime Minister haven't even seen the cartoons. They're just riding a wave of violence. In my opinion all re-building costs should be taken from the money that would have gone to them in aid. Burning down embassies and consulates is outrageous and should be strongly condemned. All countries should re-think their aid to such countries. I thank France, Germany, US, Britain and all others supporting Denmark in this matter!

devine kk
06-02-2006, 03:36 PM
I agree its a very extreme way to act and I feel that its just the next reason / excuse for people to kick off about how Muslims have been associated with terrorism. Surely it’s a very small percentage indeed probably a miniscule percentage involved, so broad brush-sweeping statements concerning Muslims are bound to fuel an angry response.

Just because the state control the newspapers in Muslim territories they have simply assumed that the Danish state also control their media and hence condone the images which were simply an act of free speech. Albeit tasteless and unnecessary.

regards the "Onze lieve vrouw van vlaanderen" all i can say is "Bitty"

hasselbrad
06-02-2006, 05:04 PM
And what If you would do the same 50 and more years ago? When “we” western countries were as religious as Muslims are now?
It still wouldn't have incited violence and the torching of embassies. This is, much like the recent riots in France, a well constructed catalyst for violent behavior.

Would you be able to explain a catholic community 50 years ago, that showing Maria’s titties is nothing to make a fuss about? Most Muslims in Muslim countries don’t live in the wealth we live in, they don’t get the education we get.
We should be the smart side here and DON’T post such cartoons.
I never said they couldn't be upset. I merely suggested they take a hard look at the reasoning behind the cartoon. The Muslim community, by and large, has remained silent when it comes to condemning terrorist acts. If there was as much outrage in the Muslim community toward those who have caused the world to take such a dim view of Islam, it would be different. After 9/11, many in the Muslim community immediately went to hate card as a reaction. C.A.I.R. and other Islamic groups voiced their concerns that Muslims would be targets of hate crimes rather than condemning the act of terrorism.
As far as education goes, it's not our fault they've burned all the history books and read nothing but the Q'ran.

Ah yes, and do you think it is wise to connect 1.5milliard people with terrorism?
You post a photograph of how many people? I could count 15 on it.
1.5 milliard – 15 people =… I’m putting it extreme here but I hope you know what I mean.
That's one of several I've seen on the internet. I just posted that one because of what the sign says. They are threatening to kill thousands over a cartoon. I saw another one that said "Behead those who claim Islam is violent". I have a feeling, judging from the man's expression, that the irony was utterly lost on him.
It more like 1,000,000,000...and I am very aware that the extremists make up a very small portion...but I'm also aware that many Islamic charities serve as fronts to fund terrorism. I'm also acutely aware of the fact that much of the extremism is rooted in Wahabbist imams in Saudi Arabia...and that their literature makes the shit you would find on a white supremacist site look like Dr. Suess.

Heh, if 1.5 milliard people would shoot a gun every time they are happy, it would rain bullets.
This type of generalisation is ridicules and causes a lot of frustrations.
I think he was pointing that out for the comic value.

Conclusion, don’t post cartoons like that, they are not ready for it. It only causes frustrations. And gives extremists the chance to influence society.
They'd find something else. Period.
Everyone else's speech should be curtailed because Muslims are easily offended? Why stop there? Why not ban anything that offends anyone?
Where would it stop?

Ah yes, take a way the wealth, the only possibility to evolve to an western society. Make the frustrations bigger, by making the gap between rich and poor bigger. Good thinking.
You're right, we should just burn their embassies down instead. ;)

And, by the way, the timing of all of this wouldn't have anything to do with the chairmanship of UN Security Council, would it? Hmmm.

Scott
06-02-2006, 10:38 PM
They can go fuck themselves!

EmotionSickness
06-02-2006, 11:51 PM
Arabic cartoons. (http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm)

deviljet88
07-02-2006, 09:05 AM
It's nothing more than an excuse to cause riots and not go to school/work. Be offended that your best friend died in militant/army crossfire, not about some ridiculous cartoon.

Leonie
07-02-2006, 11:16 AM
I was trying to download a few songs that have been used in McLeod's Daughters, so I tried to visit http://www.fans-of-mcleods.com/. Lovely.

They're bloody mad if they think that hacking a fansite for an Australian series will help us see their point.

Foeni
07-02-2006, 11:21 AM
And they can't spell...

hasselbrad
07-02-2006, 01:10 PM
Arabic cartoons. (http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm)
We should burn something. Anything.

Leonie
07-02-2006, 01:27 PM
We should burn something. Anything.

This whole ordeal has given me a great attitude towards everything though: "Stop it or I'll burn your embassy" is a great response to anything, from people jumping queues to housemates playing loud music. Fantastic.

hasselbrad
07-02-2006, 02:15 PM
This whole ordeal has given me a great attitude towards everything though: "Stop it or I'll burn your embassy" is a great response to anything, from people jumping queues to housemates playing loud music. Fantastic.
I'm stealing this. Burn my embassy...I don't care. I am definitely going to use this. :D

Leonie
07-02-2006, 02:23 PM
Heh, credit goes to Liam for burning my embassy first actually :icon_bigg

acliff
07-02-2006, 04:21 PM
You ask how we would react? Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell would get their BVDs in a bunch, a few Christian groups would protest and threaten to boycott, Janet Jackson's titty would pop out, and all would be forgotten.
I can assure you, no embassies would be burned down!
My point is, if the millions of moderate Muslims around the world would take an honest look at why things like this appear in newspapers, maybe they would work to marginalize those who have tarnished the image of Islam. It certainly isn't a Danish cartoonist.
The media connects Muslims with terrorism, because 99.95% of all terrorist acts around the world are carried out by people who pray toward Mecca. It's Islam that supposedly promises seventy some odd virgins upon martyrdom.
Images like this one make me wonder how many truly are "moderate".
http://boortz.com/images/muslim_cartoon_protests.jpg


Confused protestors spotted:

hasselbrad
08-02-2006, 07:05 PM
:rofl:

Rob The BLack Douglas
09-02-2006, 01:41 AM
Proof that letting religion dictate peoples lives is fucking stupid.

Lizzie Bennet
09-02-2006, 03:05 AM
The one thing that I do not get is why the US said that printing those cartoons was the wrong thing to do. I mean what happened to freedom of the press. I think this whole thing has just gotten blown out of proportion.

Leonie
09-02-2006, 06:35 AM
Freedom of press and saying anything you want isn't quite the same. Yes, officially, you are allowed to say whatever you want, but I think the general addition is that you can, under the condition that what you say isn't harmful to others.

I could call you horrible things, but society demands I don't, and behave in a civil manner. Printing those cartoons, though legal, wasn't a very clever thing to do. That said, I think it's not worth burning embassies for.

I think it's a wise decision not to print the cartoons in the US. It's not like they don't get enough hatred directed at them already, and the cartoons aren't vital for peole to see. They'll only cause more unrest, and really, what's the use in that?

Foeni
21-02-2008, 03:20 PM
So, news in the situation. Three men apparently planned to murder one of the cartoonists that made this cartoon:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4159/384/1600/JP-011005-Muhammed-Westerga.jpg.
Luckily the Danish Security and Intelligence Service arrested the three men in time. The problem in the case now lies in the fact that the two Tunisians have been expulsed from Denmark without a trial. I think it's a major problem that you can expulse people without a trial, simply because they're deemed a threat to national security by the Intelligence Service. I understand the need of these Services to be able to work without having the expose all evidence and thus risking further investigations. I think the solution would be to let selected judges and lawyers see the evidence and then make a recommendation.

What do you guys think?

hasselbrad
21-02-2008, 04:20 PM
So, news in the situation. Three men apparently planned to murder one of the cartoonists that made this cartoon:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4159/384/1600/JP-011005-Muhammed-Westerga.jpg.
Luckily the Danish Security and Intelligence Service arrested the three men in time. The problem in the case now lies in the fact that the two Tunisians have been expulsed from Denmark without a trial. I think it's a major problem that you can expulse people without a trial, simply because they're deemed a threat to national security by the Intelligence Service. I understand the need of these Services to be able to work without having the expose all evidence and thus risking further investigations. I think the solution would be to let selected judges and lawyers see the evidence and then make a recommendation.

What do you guys think?

It's a Catch-22 situation.
When you take something like this into a court of law, you run the risk of exposing an entire investigation. It's not like bringing down a drug operation. By and large, drug dealers keep to themselves because they are rivals. It's completely different when you are investigating terrorist cells, because they are all linked (some less than others) to each other. They all receive funds from the same groups, for the most part, so taking one group of terrorists to court would send other groups even deeper. But then, without any sort of oversight, intelligence agencies could very easily get out of control.

The only way I could see it possible to have hearings would be to bring in a group like the ACLU to oversee the proceedings and ensure that due process is served. However, they would have to be under some sort of gag order regarding the issues, meaning that they can't go screaming to the press about the proceedings.