PDA

View Full Version : There is a new pope...


Digital_Ice
19-04-2005, 05:01 PM
...Joseph Ratzinger...

78

oldest man to be elected this century

not italian

ok out of ways of puffing out this thread

bruman
19-04-2005, 05:06 PM
it's a fucking german facist :@
i hope he dies quiqly

Digital_Ice
19-04-2005, 05:12 PM
is he?

didnt know that...

fascist? thats a great choice by god aint it...

bruman
19-04-2005, 05:23 PM
yes
btw
1. he doesnt likes modern tech => no condom surely, abortion,gay-lovers .....
2. he served in the SS in WW2

acliff
19-04-2005, 05:25 PM
it's a fucking german facist :@
i hope he dies quiqly

Watch what you say...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4445279.stm

A repentant facist maybe. Get your facts right.

hasselbrad
19-04-2005, 05:47 PM
78 years old? Apparently they want to do this again in a few years.

MrPink
19-04-2005, 05:49 PM
to be fair whats the point of electing an old pope... he's just going to die quickly...

Jacoby
19-04-2005, 05:52 PM
They don't want a pope to last that long. They want as much change as possible. Sort of like how we have a new President every 4 or 8 years.

Liam
19-04-2005, 06:00 PM
it's a fucking german facist :@
i hope he dies quiqly

That is one of the more ignorant things I have ever heard.

Surely by your logic, any German who served during the war is a fascist who deserves a quick death. You'll notice that a great proportion of the SS was formed by conscripts, usually manning anti-aircraft or reserve tank formations. There is no evidence anywhere to suggest that this man was involved in anything other than fighting for his country.

Its a good result, methinks. The church should not conform to the needs of society - its laws have been written down for 2000 years and a change in the mentality of the population is no cause for a shift in fundamental doctrine.

Either way - at 78, he can't really expect to accomplish much in the way of change.

Foeni
19-04-2005, 06:13 PM
When talking about SS, you got to remember that it was splitted. I don't remember if it was two or three, but at least one of them was Waffen-SS (= weapon-SS), who served at the front. They were nothing like the SS in the concentration camps. THEY were brutal. And not joining the war when commanded to could be seen as a traitor of your country. Punished very hard.

The reason the church doesn't want a church to sit more than 10 years approximately, is that it's not really healthy to have the same leader for more than that. It becomes too much of the same.

Leonie
19-04-2005, 06:18 PM
it's a fucking german facist :@
i hope he dies quiqly
Errr.. how amazingly well-informed and ungeneralising.

Most SS'ers weren't exactly over the moon and eager to join. Rather, they were forced to. It was either that, or death. You're from Belgium, and if you are also from Flanders, I suggest you read De Tweeling by Tessa de Loo (or, if you're not up for reading, rent the film, same title). Might change your perspective a little.

As for the new pope... I can think of people I'd rather have elected pope, but I'm not a Catholic, so I don't really have a right to complain.

Foeni
19-04-2005, 06:21 PM
Most SS'ers weren't exactly over the moon and eager to join. Rather, they were forced to. It was either that, or death.

Well, that isn't exactly right. You weren't forced to join SS. You could be forced to join Wehrmacht.

Flightfreak
19-04-2005, 06:26 PM
78 and a big conservative, nothing changed just the name and the face.
Things will probably go on like before...

Liam
19-04-2005, 06:29 PM
Well, that isn't exactly right. You weren't forced to join SS. You could be forced to join Wehrmacht.

Well yes, but from the Wehrmacht you could be goaded into the SS. For most, it was a step up from regular infantry service. By 1944 the Wehrmacht had slipped in terms of standard of equipment, and training was all down the toilet. Joining an SS regiment ensured a good standard of equipment (at least up until early 1945) with the new StG-44 and FG42 weapons, the best tanks and extended training.

As far as I remember, there was only one SS 'death squad'. The rest were front line combat units with a reputation for fighting exceptionally hard. Sort of the equivalent of a Soviet Guards unit. A regular SS soldier was no more 'evil' than the rank and file Allied soldier.

Some people need to pick up a book and read before they shoot their mouth off.

Foeni
19-04-2005, 06:44 PM
I think you might be right about going from Wehrmacht to SS, but I don't think that was the usual way to join the SS. In the beginning only the best could join. They were a special trained squad with the only purpose of protecting Hitler. Later on they took more in.

Yes, there was only on 'death squad', I know that for sure. Those are the ones with the scull on their hats.

You are right about the equipment.

I hope you're not referring to me about the book. Course I've read A LOT about world war two. I'm just not very good at expressing it in English :icon_redf

AureaMediocritas
19-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Let´s just all heil , sorry hail , our new pope ! :icon_err:

Digital_Ice
19-04-2005, 07:54 PM
lol

so he's german... but not a fascist...???

i dont see what (some) people have againts the germans... certain germans perhaps, but not in general

bruman
19-04-2005, 09:02 PM
lol

so he's german... but not a fascist...???

i dont see what (some) people have againts the germans... certain germans perhaps, but not in general

i don't have anything against germans, i even have friends there
but some people aren't in my eyes that "clean" as others

Foeni
19-04-2005, 09:17 PM
i don't have anything against germans, i even have friends there
but some people aren't in my eyes that "clean" as others
But it seems you have something against reading books that'll make you just a little more clever.

Some people need to pick up a book and read before they shoot their mouth off.
So true.

bruman
19-04-2005, 09:26 PM
why the hell shoud i read a book?
i also don't read books how to work with a pc, but i know lots of it, without to read a book
=> you don't need to read a book to understand stuff

but remember
that is MY opinion

acliff
19-04-2005, 09:41 PM
why the hell shoud i read a book?
i also don't read books how to work with a pc, but i know lots of it, without to read a book
=> you don't need to read a book to understand stuff

but remember
that is MY opinion

What you do need is a book so that you understand punctuation, and correct grammar, but of course you know lots of that too.

deviljet88
20-04-2005, 12:53 AM
Fuggle this, Shaft (or whoever the African cardinal was) should've won. Thankfully, Ratzinger is only a transitional pope... unless he surprises everyone and lives for another 30 years.

Leonie
20-04-2005, 09:23 AM
why the hell shoud i read a book?
i also don't read books how to work with a pc, but i know lots of it, without to read a book
=> you don't need to read a book to understand stuff

but remember
that is MY opinion
If your opinion is contrary to the obvious facts you could have known had you bothered to read a book on the topic, it might be wrong, don't you think?

bruman
20-04-2005, 10:43 AM
i don't need to read books about the news
but hey, i see it so, other so .....
just what i think, others may have another opinion, but this one is mine

Leonie
20-04-2005, 10:52 AM
i don't need to read books about the news
but hey, i see it so, other so .....
just what i think, others may have another opinion, but this one is mine
Not a book on the news, but a book on WWII, the SS in specific. You'll find that not everyone who was part of the SS during the war joined out of fascist beliefs. Fact. Not an opinion.

You can think whatever you like, but that won't change the straight facts.

deviljet88
20-04-2005, 12:40 PM
Since everyone's seemingly ripping right into bruman, there's a few "facts"... While you might argue that not EVERYONE joined the SS during the war out of fascist beliefs, this obviously means that SOME did join for their political beliefs. What's so wrong about some people thinking the latter about Ratzinger? So what if he deserted the army, he could've done it on the grounds that he knew he was fighting a losing war, bad conditions etc. Who's telling us that he was an unenthusiastic Nazi Youth anyway? Surely its his countrymen and supporters that are spreading these rumours about him.

And about bruman's grammar and spelling, lay off, not everyone lives/raised up with English as a main language.

Flightfreak
20-04-2005, 12:41 PM
http://home.tiscali.be/flightfreaks/ratzingerr-1.jpg

Jacoby
20-04-2005, 12:59 PM
You're going to Hell, FlightFreak.

Flightfreak
20-04-2005, 01:00 PM
sounds like fun :icon_bigg

Digital_Ice
20-04-2005, 01:00 PM
*sobs*

my lovely thread.....

lol, anyway... i personally dont think it makes a difference who he is, what he has done or anything, as long as i is a good head of their church, the catholics like him and he does what makes them happiest.... not being religious myself i cant realy comment on their choice of pope. and anyway surley (surely, sureley or however its spelt) if they are supposed to get led by god into the choice then their god must have some use for him, and think he would make a good pope???

Foeni
20-04-2005, 03:38 PM
lol, anyway... i personally dont think it makes a difference who he is, what he has done or anything, as long as i is a good head of their church,
What he has done in the past could mean a great deal, since a lot might not like the head of the catholic church being a former SS. A big issue for him to deal with, is the relations with other religions. The jews for instance. Would you as a jew have very much to do with a former nazi (if he was so)?

As several guys have already argued, a lot didn't join because they believed in the fascist beliefs. You got much greater opportunities when in the SS or the Nazi party.

Liam
20-04-2005, 05:15 PM
Are you sure he was SS? I read that he was Hitler Youth, but that was an organisation far from the front line SS units. Note that at the time, joining the Hitler youth was a compulsory requirement for young German males.

AureaMediocritas
20-04-2005, 05:32 PM
Are you sure he was SS? I read that he was Hitler Youth, but that was an organisation far from the front line SS units. Note that at the time, joining the Hitler youth was a compulsory requirement for young German males.

Compulsory yet romantic. Just imagine the lovely aryan boys sitting around
the fireplace singing German songs. Love was in the air, and some indoctrination.
(Becoming a cleric afterwards, Ratzinger must have enjoyed that kind of "male
friendship" , so just leave his Nazi past alone ;) )

Foeni
20-04-2005, 05:34 PM
According to BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4445279.stm) he was Hitler Jugend and in some anti-aircraft unit. Someone on this thread said he was SS. If it was bruman, I shall withdraw what I said about Ratzinger and SS until I've found a source saying he was.

Keyser_so_so
20-04-2005, 05:45 PM
I have a feeling that he was a shoo-in. The cardinals probably have their eye on some young gun, and need an old geezer to fill the void before the said young gun is old enough to be mature about it all.

So they all went for a safe one, by getting John Paul IIIs right-hand man to toddle about, being holy and shit, and then snuff it in a good 20, 30 years.

Either that, or they just decided that's who they wanted as a Pope, and appreciated the comfort in knowing it was John Paul III's right-hand man, and that he has the standard thinking for the job. I just hope there's someone a teensy bit more free on the whole condom, gay and stuff thing. Not that it affects me, being mostly Christian and all- it's just I'm sure a lot of horny young males who are Catholic will be wanting the right to use a connie! Or be gay, if they're that way inclined.

AureaMediocritas
20-04-2005, 05:48 PM
I have a feeling that he was a shoo-in. The cardinals probably have their eye on some young gun, and need an old geezer to fill the void before the said young gun is old enough to be mature about it all.

So they all went for a safe one, by getting John Paul IIIs right-hand man to toddle about, being holy and shit, and then snuff it in a good 20, 30 years.

Either that, or they just decided that's who they wanted as a Pope, and appreciated the comfort in knowing it was John Paul III's right-hand man, and that he has the standard thinking for the job. I just hope there's someone a teensy bit more free on the whole condom, gay and stuff thing. Not that it affects me, being mostly Christian and all- it's just I'm sure a lot of horny young males who are Catholic will be wanting the right to use a connie! Or be gay, if they're that way inclined.

No offence but who is John Paul III ? :)

acliff
21-04-2005, 12:19 AM
Since everyone's seemingly ripping right into bruman, there's a few "facts"... While you might argue that not EVERYONE joined the SS during the war out of fascist beliefs, this obviously means that SOME did join for their political beliefs. What's so wrong about some people thinking the latter about Ratzinger? So what if he deserted the army, he could've done it on the grounds that he knew he was fighting a losing war, bad conditions etc. Who's telling us that he was an unenthusiastic Nazi Youth anyway? Surely its his countrymen and supporters that are spreading these rumours about him.

And about bruman's grammar and spelling, lay off, not everyone lives/raised up with English as a main language.

I wasn't raised up with english as a main language. Its a wonder what reading and education linked with said activity can do for a person eh? Making the point that he's a retard for saying that you don't need books.

Secondly, theres nothing inherently wrong about voicing an opinion about what the new Pope's beliefs are. But conversely, there isn't anything wrong about voicing a counter opinion, where we think Bruman is being an misfiring dickhead. You don't go about throwing accusations that the Pope is a nazi, without people saying that you're an unread less-than-illiterate simpleton, with opinions which frankly border on racism.

To think that he's a secret Nazi after all the years of loyal catholic service, after having been very good friends with the former pope John Paul II, who was Polish, and was persecuted by the very Country that Ratzinger 'fought' for... and then getting chosen as the next pope by the heads of the Catholic church is folly. Although of course, he may use his power to become the next Adolf Hitler... but he neither has the charisma, nor the support structure, so slightly unlikely I feel.

Third, it was compulsary for all young boys in Germany at the time to join the Hitler youth. If you didn't you were either a Jew and sent somewhere less pleasant, or you were taken to be brainwashed, and your parents pay the price, or go to the hitler youth, and get brainwashed.
The SS was a completely different organisation entirely, and Ratzinger didn't join that, he was drafted into an anti aircraft unit, which he defected from, upon which he was kept as a prisoner of war for quite some time.

duckula
21-04-2005, 12:31 AM
My pope is better than yours.

deviljet88
21-04-2005, 01:14 AM
I wasn't raised up with english as a main language. Its a wonder what reading and education linked with said activity can do for a person eh? Making the point that he's a retard for saying that you don't need books.

Secondly, theres nothing inherently wrong about voicing an opinion about what the new Pope's beliefs are. But conversely, there isn't anything wrong about voicing a counter opinion, where we think Bruman is being an misfiring dickhead. You don't go about throwing accusations that the Pope is a nazi, without people saying that you're an unread less-than-illiterate simpleton, with opinions which frankly border on racism.

To think that he's a secret Nazi after all the years of loyal catholic service, after having been very good friends with the former pope John Paul II, who was Polish, and was persecuted by the very Country that Ratzinger 'fought' for... and then getting chosen as the next pope by the heads of the Catholic church is folly. Although of course, he may use his power to become the next Adolf Hitler... but he neither has the charisma, nor the support structure, so slightly unlikely I feel.

Third, it was compulsary for all young boys in Germany at the time to join the Hitler youth. If you didn't you were either a Jew and sent somewhere less pleasant, or you were taken to be brainwashed, and your parents pay the price, or go to the hitler youth, and get brainwashed.
The SS was a completely different organisation entirely, and Ratzinger didn't join that, he was drafted into an anti aircraft unit, which he defected from, upon which he was kept as a prisoner of war for quite some time.
What country are you in Cliff? And what country is Bruman in? My english is comprehensible mainly because I live in Australia. If my parents stayed in China, I'd be much worse than I am now in the language.
On the point of him being a secret Nazi, Hitler was a Catholic. So what if a Catholic man persecuted another country where John Paul the Catholic Pope was born? On another point what is loyal service, just the point of staying in the church? It has no connections to your political view. Last time I checked the Bible, the political scene wasn't a democracy.
And to your last point, as I said, he might have been forced to join the Hitler Youths, but then he could've enjoyed his time while there. Only the opinions of the Germans give us the "fact" that he was unenthusiastic and deserted the army out of disliking the cause (when there's a chance of him deserting out of sheer terror of defeat).

Liam
21-04-2005, 09:36 AM
Maybe he did enjoy his time in the Hitler Youth. It was a group pretty much like the boy scouts, with a little bit of political indoctrination thrown in. Now for a boy of 7 or 8 years old, political indoctrination means precisely dick, but camping in the countryside, rock climbing, rafting, etc is a great adventure.

As for softening the Church's stance on homosexuality, contraception and abortion - it simply cannot be done, and the sooner people realise this the better. If the Church were to turn around to tomorrow and declare that homosexuality is A-OK, condoms are fantastic and hey, heres a coupon for 50% off your next abortion, it would be going back on 2000 years of teaching and doctrine. Now that would make the whole thing appear just a tad hippocritical, which isn't good for a religious organisation. I'd like to see changes made, yes - particularly with regard to the contraceptive debate - but I know that in the eyes of the Church hierarchy, it wont be happening in my lifetime, or my children's lifetime, for that matter.

What you have to remember is that the man is 78. Most European males around that age served in the war in a front line capacity. The Pope is German. You do the math. Serving in the German armed forces during WW2 does not make him a Nazi. I have had the pleasure of speaking to two German war veterans - one a Bf-109 pilot, the other a Stuka pilot - and both of them told me that not one man in their units joined because of political leanings. They were all there to serve their country during its time of need - exactly the same way many of our grandfathers did.

The bottom line is that anyone who served his country (with the exception of blokes from death squads, etc. I wouldn't normally have to say this but I can imagine some smart arse making a big deal of it) is deserving of the utmost respect. Try showing it.

Keyser_so_so
21-04-2005, 12:39 PM
No offence but who is John Paul III ? :)


Yeah, sorry about that. He was JPII. I think... In Chile he was called Juan Pablo II, so I guess that works out right.