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View Full Version : Terri Schiavo has been in a vegetative state for 15 years


Flightfreak
21-03-2005, 06:44 PM
BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4369861.stm)

A US federal judge is to consider a request by the parents of a severely brain-damaged woman to keep her alive.
The move comes after Congress passed emergency legislation - signed by President George Bush - calling for a review of the Terri Schiavo case.
The hearing to decide whether to resume Mrs Schiavo's feeding tube is set for 1500 (2000 GMT) in Tampa, Florida.
Mrs Schiavo, 41, who has been in a vegetative state since 1990, has had no food or water since Friday.

What are your opinions about this case?

mike
21-03-2005, 06:48 PM
i know what state she is in but is ther any way that she can or has expressed her wishes?

Flightfreak
21-03-2005, 06:50 PM
maybe we better ask our selfs if we need to think about her as a human or as a plant. because the last 15 year she lived like plant.

Foeni
21-03-2005, 06:59 PM
If she in any way has expressed a wish to die, she should be allowed to. That would normally be my reaction, but in this case we're talking about a severely brain-damaged person. I think that gives us a clue about whether we can trust her words or not.
Now, the husband asked, as her guardian, to have the tube removed, and somehow I think we should let him judge. But on the other hand, if there is just the slightest chance she can return to a normal (as normal as it can get for a brain-damaged), she should be kept alive. And yet I'm not really sure how I feel, somehow, I think it's wrong that another person should be able to determine whether he ex-wife should live or not.. Tough question there FF.

Flightfreak
21-03-2005, 07:09 PM
It’s a fact that science/doctors still not understand the brains 100%.
But if the doctors say that she won’t return, than I don’t know, but I think they should let her die. Even if she can return, what will the life quality be of her life? Her brains are damaged,…
I would also like to point at the life of her husband, he can’t move on with his still “normal life” as long as she is still a life, I think its a very big emotional weight he needs to take care of. Knowing that his wife already lives like a plant for 15 years.
Personally I think if she would have any conscience that she already would asked to let her die to let her husband move on with his life.
I also love the way how the government interferes with this case! :icon_err: *gosh I love the politics of the usa*

MrPink
21-03-2005, 07:19 PM
mmm... i don't think it's right for people to decide who lives and who dies. but look at it this way. if i had the choice whether could die now or live indefinatly but be in her postion with the slightest chance of recovery i think i would choose to live, she is still a human life, it won't happen for her again. thats my point of view

Flightfreak
21-03-2005, 07:40 PM
You say its not peoples right to decide who lives and who dies.
But they keep her unnatural a life?

hasselbrad
21-03-2005, 07:46 PM
She told her husband, after watching a movie about someone being kept alive against their wishes by family members who couldn't let go, that she did not want to be kept alive in this manner. It's not like she can "wake up" from this. It's not a coma. She is basically a vegetable. She doesn't have any more function that basic functions, such as breathing and blinking.
It was her wish to die with dignity, but since she didn't put it down in writing, her family...bolstered by the right to life bunch...are going to keep her "alive" for as long as possible.
Texas has a law which stipulates that once the money runs out on a patient in this vegetative state, the state will pull the plug, period. Signed into law, by none other than George W. Bush.
Her husband just wants to what she wished.
My wish is that they let her die.
More of an issue for me, is the fact that the Federal Government has gotten involved (i.e.: Congress) in what is, essentially, a state matter. That scares me.

Foeni
21-03-2005, 08:15 PM
In that case, she HAS expressed that she would like to have the tube removed. Then I think they should remove it.

hasselbrad
21-03-2005, 08:38 PM
In that case, she HAS expressed that she would like to have the tube removed. Then I think they should remove it.

That's the crux of the argument.
He says she did. Her parents say she didn't.
Of course, her parents have lost all touch with reality. They are talking about taking her out to eat and to the movies.

Foeni
21-03-2005, 08:45 PM
Doesn't seem very realistic. But if the parents are willing to pay for it, then let the woman live.

MrPink
21-03-2005, 09:07 PM
good point that

Elijahfan
21-03-2005, 09:41 PM
i dont care either way...but dont kill someone by starvation, now that's just cruel, over dosing on the sweet morphine is the way to go.

hannahjane
21-03-2005, 09:52 PM
i dont care either way...but dont kill someone by starvation, now that's just cruel, over dosing on the sweet morphine is the way to go.

"the sweet morphine" cracked me up!! :D. I've refrained from commenting on this thread coz I know I'll ramble - especially as my views on it aren't yet specifically defined. But I honestly don't believe, as I think someone's already said, that one human being ever has the right to decide whether or not another human being should live; ever. That's like condoning murder!

Obviously in circumstance such as these, someone has to make that decision or whatever. And my opinion on the matter is that:

a) If the woman can express her wishes - let her have what she wants, like I say, no-one but her should have the right to say whether or not she lives or dies.

b) If she honestly can't communicate her wishes, and someone else is forced to make the decision, I say it should be the husband because HE is her legal guardian, not the parents. If he says she should die, she should die. As guardian, he would obviously know her best. I can understand just how difficult it must be for the parents, but at the end of the day, they can't live her life for her - even if they did give it to her in the first place. (I understand that that phrase carries some level of irony considering she can't really live her life - but, basically, I don't think it's the parent's decision, if they're not her guardians, it's the husband's).

And I'm sorry, but does anyone else think of a couch potato whenever the term "vegetative state" comes up? I'm sorry I really am, I just, can't help it...

Elijahfan
21-03-2005, 10:01 PM
And I'm sorry, but does anyone else think of a couch potato whenever the term "vegetative state" comes up? I'm sorry I really am, I just, can't help it...

oh man, i laughed when i read that...damn i'm going to hell.

the ending in the movie Million Dollar Baby is some what similar, but the character did want to die...it was really sad though and i was balling my eyes out at the end, and i've only cried during two movies. the last installment of LOTR and pokemon 1, but that was when i was like 11...yes feel free to laugh at me

hannahjane
21-03-2005, 10:14 PM
:icon_rofl :icon_rofl :icon_rofl :icon_rofl :icon_rofl...

Sorry, it's just Pokemon!!, I'm actually quite concerned you went to see that film at all, but you were 11 so I'll let you off! ;). Haven't seen MDB but would definately like too, especially after its Oscar cleanout. Didn't realise anyone was in "vegetative state" (tee hee - sorry) in that.

EDIT: Please don't think that I think the whole vegetative state thing is funny AT ALL. It's just the term which depicts the situation, not the situation itself you understand. Oh wtf, Elijahfan, I'm going down with you...:icon_evil

Jacoby
21-03-2005, 11:25 PM
Youth in Asia! *Dances*

That's the name of my band. Well, not really, but it would be the most kick-ass name for a band ever. It's probably taken.

Euthanasia is a touchy subject. We had a 25 minute long discussion in English about this case, so I don't feel like talking about it anymore. All I know is that the guy has another woman and a child with that woman. He stayed with Schiavo for five years in her "vegetable" state, and then he moved on. If she dies, he gets a lot of money. But who knows if he wants to have her taken off the support because that's what she actually wanted, or because he's just a total douche? No one knows, that's who. Bitches. That's why you have to write these things in paper.

Mags
22-03-2005, 12:48 AM
the ending in the movie Million Dollar Baby is some what similar, but the character did want to die...it was really sad though and i was balling my eyes out at the end

I'm not aiming to spoil the movie or anything, because I only recently saw it...so...here...

*spoiler*

I was SO pissed at the end of this movie. The main difference between Hilary Swank's character and Terri Schiavo is that Swank was completely lucid and could have expressed her desire to refuse medical treatment. She always had that option. As was proven by the scene with her family, she'd also be capable of "signing" a statement reflecting such. She could even have signed a living will or a Power of Attorney stating that the coach could make medical decisions on her behalf. There was no reason to make the coach kill her...it was completely unnecessary.

Terri Schiavo is completely unable to make such a statement or express any wish to die, which is terrible. I'm of the opinion that no one should be forced to live when they have expressed a wish that extreme measures not be taken to keep them alive, if you can call it living at all. I think her parents have been so distraught by this 15 year situation that they've somewhat lost touch with what their daughter would want and what could realistically happen with further treatment. I know I would never want to be in this kind of situation, nor would I ever want my family to have to suffer this kind of tragedy.

Not to be preachy or anything, but seriously...everyone should let their family know of their wishes if ever they were to be so as unfortunate as to be in a similar situation. I work at an insurance company, and all of our members qualify for medicare, which means they're either 65 or older, or are disabled and I've had several calls from sons and daughters about parents who have had a stroke and the kids are essentially helpless to make medical decisions if there isn't a living will or POA on file...it's just terrible, and if the member isn't conscious, there's really nothing that can be done.

Info about living wills (http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/home.php?cat=514&partner=google)

Dionysus
22-03-2005, 02:02 AM
let her die i say
she been like that for 15 years. my nan was really bad for a few months and she was in pain the whole time, when she finally died it was, as bad as it is to say, a relief to everyone, those whod love her wanted he to be free of pain and she now is

it seems fine for the governments to kill healthy innocent people by dropping bombs from the sky, but when they won't let this sick woman die, who without the medical aid would probably be dead anyway
how the fuck does that make sence????

Bait
22-03-2005, 03:29 AM
wtf pull the damn plug...if i was a janitor or something and they didnt have cameras i would accidentally trip over the plug and get it done with. whats the point of having her live when she is like that. hell if that was me i would wish the plug was pulled way before that (hopefully by the end of the first week i was diagnosed as a vegetable)

seventhson
22-03-2005, 03:42 AM
I believe that every effort, natural, unnatural, mechanical, chemical, artificial or even supernatural should be exercised until every human/scientific effort has been used to prolong her life, as long as she is not suffering, until she passes away from an unpreventable failure of her physical being. Starvation & dehydration are preventable causes of death. Keep her alive for another 15 years and medical technology may surpass her plight and provide cure + rehabilitation to bring her back to a life like she had before her heart attack. Miracles could still happen, but if she dies of starvation in three weeks, we will never know. Pray for her.

Have you signed a "Living Will"?
I intend to get one this year.

Peace,
(-: SeventhSon :-)

Elijahfan
22-03-2005, 04:16 AM
if the parents are willing to pay for it then sure...but seriously would YOU want to be in her position. if you are religious dont you think you'll go to heaven. it's a vegetative state, not a como....so far only people come out of comos. vegetative meaning her brain was damaged from loss of oxygen, you would need like stem cells to fix the brain or at least some thing that would most likely be unorthodox to religions. maybe god wants to take her....just imagine being in her place.


i'm sticking with the morphine....which comes from the sweet sweet opium!

Ashley
22-03-2005, 05:33 AM
My beef with this case is that she's going to die from dehydration. Which is a shitty way to go if you ask me. Her "husband" (I use quotations because as it was said eariler he has another woman and a child, and really does seem in it for the money. If he would have stayed faithful to her, I don't think there would be a big issue here.
However, I've listened to talk radio and the news.. including C-Span for a good 3 days now because of this case, and they brought up a good point, there are 10,000 other cases like this. Why this case? In Texas yesterday there was a baby pulled off life support against its mothers wishes and that got nothing. Why Terri Schiavo?
From the video she looks as if she could give some sort of recognition to what was going on. Like... they had her smiling, and then not smiling. But still, we don't know what is going through her mind... if anything.
Another thing is that her husband says that she can feel no pain. How does he know? No one knows that, more than likely. She could be suffering terribly right now from 3 days without food or water. It's a terrible thing to even think about. I just think that if you're going to take her off the tube, don't just pull it out and let it go, give her some drugs or something. She could suffer for up to 2 weeks. A disturbing thought.

Flightfreak
22-03-2005, 08:43 AM
Texas has a law which stipulates that once the money runs out on a patient in this vegetative state, the state will pull the plug, period. Signed into law, by none other than George W. Bush.

Oh that’s better than, first ruin the family fortune, and than let her die.

My beef with this case is that she's going to die from dehydration. Which is a shitty way to go if you ask me. Her "husband" (I use quotations because as it was said eariler he has another woman and a child, and really does seem in it for the money.
what money?

If he would have stayed faithful to her, I don't think there would be a big issue here. .

can you blame him for trying to start a new life, Terri is plant for 15years.
Don’t underestimate, the mental weight he has to take care off.


However, I've listened to talk radio and the news.. including C-Span for a good 3 days now because of this case, and they brought up a good point, there are 10,000 other cases like this. Why this case? In Texas yesterday there was a baby pulled off life support against its mothers wishes and that got nothing. Why Terri Schiavo?

He used media to get wat in his opinion is right. I think a lot of people who are in the same situation are ashamed and don’t want to bring It out.


From the video she looks as if she could give some sort of recognition to what was going on. Like... they had her smiling, and then not smiling. But still, we don't know what is going through her mind... if anything.
Another thing is that her husband says that she can feel no pain. How does he know? No one knows that, more than likely. She could be suffering terribly right now from 3 days without food or water. It's a terrible thing to even think about. I just think that if you're going to take her off the tube, don't just pull it out and let it go, give her some drugs or something. She could suffer for up to 2 weeks. A disturbing thought.

Agree, but I think euthanasia is illegal in the states, no?

maybe a good subject to argue about, "euthanasia".

deviljet88
22-03-2005, 08:58 AM
Give her lethal injections. I mean 15 years is long enough, in my opinion, that she won't ever recover, ignoring all chances of miracles since I hardly believe in them. But not feeding her without killing her off properly is quite sad.

hannahjane
22-03-2005, 12:15 PM
wtf pull the damn plug...if i was a janitor or something and they didnt have cameras i would accidentally trip over the plug and get it done with. whats the point of having her live when she is like that. hell if that was me i would wish the plug was pulled way before that (hopefully by the end of the first week i was diagnosed as a vegetable)

"Accidentally trip over the plug and get it done with". *wipes tear away from eye* :icon_lol: :icon_lol: Ahhh....sorry.

Yeah, um, as people are saying if you ARE gonna kill her, don't just let her suffer, that's a bastard. Lethal injection as deviljet said. Or another similarly humane way. I can't believe what hasselbrad said about Bush and his shitty government, the bastards. Do they have any regard for human rights?

hasselbrad
22-03-2005, 12:45 PM
"Accidentally trip over the plug and get it done with". *wipes tear away from eye* :icon_lol: :icon_lol: Ahhh....sorry.

Yeah, um, as people are saying if you ARE gonna kill her, don't just let her suffer, that's a bastard. Lethal injection as deviljet said. Or another similarly humane way. I can't believe what hasselbrad said about Bush and his shitty government, the bastards. Do they have any regard for human rights?

It's not really a human rights issue. It's more of a "playing both sides of the fence" issue. If the family wants to prolong the life of, what amounts to a ficus tree, fine...just don't expect the state to pay for it.
From what I understand, Michael Schiavo isn't set to receive any money upon her death. He just wants closure, and for Terri's wishes to be carried out.
Her parents have, in my opinion, lost all grasp of reality. Panels of doctors have evaluated Terri and have all come to the conclusion that there is no brain function except for the most basic, automatic responses.

Elijahfan
22-03-2005, 06:40 PM
starvation is a sucky way to go....just from not eating for about a day, i'm not bulemic or anything, just a busy day but the stomach hurt. i practically wanted to roll over and die. basically your body needs food for energy and the walls in your stomach spaz out causing the pain, in this case will continue. even if her mind doesnt register it, damn that would still suck ass

hannahjane
22-03-2005, 08:01 PM
I'm starting to get really depressed by all this...

hasselbrad
22-03-2005, 08:23 PM
starvation is a sucky way to go....just from not eating for about a day, i'm not bulemic or anything, just a busy day but the stomach hurt. i practically wanted to roll over and die. basically your body needs food for energy and the walls in your stomach spaz out causing the pain, in this case will continue. even if her mind doesnt register it, damn that would still suck ass

My mother was talking to a hospice nurse the other day and she said that the state that Schiavo is in will prevent her from feeling any discomfort. She says that it's a relatively peaceful way to go.

Ashley
23-03-2005, 12:18 AM
can you blame him for trying to start a new life, Terri is plant for 15years.
Don’t underestimate, the mental weight he has to take care off.



Give her a friggen divorce then. I mean, be respectable. Don't put the poor woman into the spot light. I know if I was in her position I wouldn't have wanted my face and picture of me like that all over CNN.

I mean you can think that he's not giving a divorce because he wants her to die like he says she said she wanted. But then there's the question of did that really happen.

Bottom line is that this case shouldn't be the way it is now. The President and Congress should not have gotten involved.

frodo1511
23-03-2005, 12:29 AM
I would've said, "kill me if I go braindead" in my will or something. It's not like she will ever get better short from an act of God. Her husband understands this, and dosen't want her to suffer, but her parents are CONVINCED that she is making progress. It's just false hopes, and they are giving her attention she dosen't need. What a waste of news space.

Ashley
23-03-2005, 01:02 AM
I would've said, "kill me if I go braindead" in my will or something.

She didn't have a will, which is what makes the case, a... well... case.

I just don't think we know how she's feeling. She could be suffering from no water and food, who knows?

Elijahfan
23-03-2005, 01:08 AM
My mother was talking to a hospice nurse the other day and she said that the state that Schiavo is in will prevent her from feeling any discomfort. She says that it's a relatively peaceful way to go.

i guess if she can't feel anything that's fine, but coming from people's perspective were we can feel that sucks ass.

BRING IN THE MORPHINE!

and like i say to my mom everyday about my 20 year old brother... "let the kid go mom, like a bird, fly away" :icon_ange (he's a momma's boy and doesnt have any friends)

Flightfreak
23-03-2005, 08:05 AM
Give her a friggen divorce then. I mean, be respectable. Don't put the poor woman into the spot light. I know if I was in her position I wouldn't have wanted my face and picture of me like that all over CNN.

I mean you can think that he's not giving a divorce because he wants her to die like he says she said she wanted. But then there's the question of did that really happen.

Bottom line is that this case shouldn't be the way it is now. The President and Congress should not have gotten involved.
The fact that he would divorce her or not, would not make much difference, he just want to let her die in peace and not seeing her kept a life as a plant.
I hate sensational media,
But maybe this whole case will make the question of "euthanasia” rise again.
The fact that the president stopped his vacation to sign a new ?whatever? To make the case review able is not really correct. But what ive heard is that 80% of the usa is shocked because the congress and Bush gotten evolved.
Maybe you can make bush resign now?:p

hasselbrad
23-03-2005, 12:47 PM
From what I understand, he didn't want to get a divorce because he didn't want her parents to assume guardianship. He knew that if they did, they wouldn't respect her wishes.
BTW, a panel of 3 judges from the 11th Circuit Court has denied their appeal.
Now, they are down to the Supreme Court.
Elijahfan's right. Give her morphine for any "discomfort" she may be feeling and let her go.

MrPink
23-03-2005, 12:51 PM
i dont care either way...but dont kill someone by starvation, now that's just cruel, over dosing on the sweet morphine is the way to go.
definatly better than the starvation route

bruman
23-03-2005, 01:10 PM
the fuck?
bush & co wanna save 1 life and he get's back early from vacation to vote ...
but for the 1000 dead soldiers in iraq he doesn't care
doesnt makes sence >_<

hannahjane
23-03-2005, 01:12 PM
the fuck?
bush & co wanna save 1 life and he get's back early from vacation to vote ...
but for the 1000 dead soldiers in iraq he doesn't care
doesnt makes sence >_<

Good Point.

MrPink
23-03-2005, 06:02 PM
ya true, that is a good point really.