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Nick
23-11-2004, 06:34 AM
I was watching a T.V. show called "unexplained mysteries" the other day and for those of you who may not have heard of it basically it's a show where people talk about supernatural events. In other words they have supposed victims of hauntings, alien abductions, etc. come and talk about their experiences and "experts" try to provide evidence to prove these events.
However I think it's all a load of bullshit. I have yet to see any of these people provide good solid evidence to support their claims. The photographs of "U.F.O.s" are always blurry, and the "evidence" that's supposed to prove that ghosts really exist always consists of a "psychic" being brought into the house that's supposedly haunted and doing some stupid mumbo jumbo bullshit that provides absolutely no proof whatsoever. You're just supposed to take the psychics word for it and believe that he or she really did "feel a presence."
So now that you know what I think feel free to express your opinions about the supernatural. However try and support your opinion, for example don't just say "Oh yes I believe in ghosts," I want you to give a good logical argument as to why you believe or don't believe in supernatural occurrences. And no what a "psychic" says does not count as evidence unless you have proof to support what this "psychic" says. You can't just simply take someone's word for it, for all you know this "psychic" could be nothing more than a con artist. In fact I think all "psychics" are just con artists, but that's my opinion and I'm giving you believers a chance to try and prove me wrong.

PhoeniX
23-11-2004, 04:00 PM
I believe in ghosts but there is no proof either way, so I suppose I want to believe, but scientists would argue that there is a perfectly scientific reason with no actual proof. But I don't know enough into the logical side of it

IBO
23-11-2004, 05:27 PM
I???ll start with a question:

Do you believe that we are the only civilization in the universe?

I believe there are other civilizations out there which are superior to us. It would be absurd to believe we are the only race. Scientific proof is totally irrelevant to the fact that aliens exist. Seeing is believing, if you lived by this you would probably go crazy by now. You would be wondering why you get hit with a force called wind. I can argue the fact that you didn???t know me before I joined KKW but I still existed.

As for ghosts, I???m not sure. Who knows what happens after you die. There are many theories out there. Many religions have their own opinion on life after death.
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AliceinChains
23-11-2004, 07:49 PM
in referance to ghosts...what about poltergeists? Poltergeist's are more of a form of demon than ghost but if we have poltergeists why not ghosts?

Louie
23-11-2004, 07:53 PM
Who says poltergeists are real? They are in the same boat as ghosts are; there is no real evidence supporting their existence.

barrington
24-11-2004, 12:15 AM
The chief scientific reason these things might exist is that people's fanciful minds WANT them too. The daydreaming fantasies of a few people can easily overturn hundreds of years of scientific evidence to the contrary. It doesn't matter what you say to people who want to believe, they will ignore anything and everything to keep believing.

buddy stiff
24-11-2004, 12:19 AM
barrington your an idiot u clearly dont know what the fuck you are talking about go suck a dick eat my shit and lick sarah's ass

good night motherfuckers

Nick
24-11-2004, 02:31 AM
Wow Buddy very lucrative response. The intelligence of your post is just overwhelming. Your sophistication level is that of a chimpanzee with brain damage. No wait even a chimp looks like Aristotle next to your IQ. I think Jane Goodall would agree with me there.

PhoeniX
24-11-2004, 04:55 PM
I’ll start with a question:
Do you believe that we are the only civilization in the universe?


Yeah there got to be something else, evan if they are 3mm long slug-like things, for every grain of sand on the earth, there are a thousand billion stars or something

barrington
24-11-2004, 06:12 PM
for every grain of sand there is ONE star. Sorry. It's big, but not THAT big. :P

AliceinChains
25-11-2004, 04:25 AM
Ok your right i screwed up kinda with the poltergeist thing. What I was getting at was exorcism. If we have exorcists, there must be something for them to exorcize, hence an evil spirit of the sort. Exorcists primarialy deal with the possesed but also in cases such as poltergeists. So hence, why doubt the existance of a poltergeist if exorcist have been called apon to expel them? Now if you dont believe in exorsism or the possesed then nothing I say can will really have an effect on your opinion.

info to check out http://www.skepticfiles.org/xhate/exorcist.htm
(if that doesnt work just email me if you want it) aliceinchains91@aol.com

IBO
25-11-2004, 04:58 AM
for every grain of sand there is ONE star. Sorry. It's big, but not THAT big. :P

What scientific proof can say how many stars there are? The answer is unknown. We haven't even scratched the surface of the universe.
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barrington
25-11-2004, 05:20 AM
Er... take a train. If you know it's time of departure and speed then you know where it is now.

Make the train the edge of the universe and it's departure the time the universe was created (we know with very good accuracy that this was 15bn years ago) and you know how big it is. Examine the average density of the universe from observations (and it would appear that we can see MOST of the visible universe) and you know how many stars there are. This was all done in the 1960's. It's not, as they say, Rocket science.

IBO
25-11-2004, 05:33 AM
On the contrary my dear Barrington, I would hardly base my arguments on mere human technology, as we are not as we were. Do you always believe what is in front of you? Do you ever explore past the unknown?

How was the universe created? Lets think beyond the ???Big Band??? it???s nonsense? What would cause the ???Big Bang???? And, where did the matter that made up the ???Big Bang??? come from?

The unknown is just that, unknown.
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Nick
25-11-2004, 06:24 AM
How was the universe created? Lets think beyond the ‘Big Band’ it’s nonsense? What would cause the ‘Big Bang’? And, where did the matter that made up the ‘Big Bang’ come from?

I don't think we can dance around the subject anymore. Let's just get to the point, what all this talking about the universe really comes down to is whether you're a creationist or Darwinist. Although I suppose Darwinist isn't really the right term for someone who believes in "big bang" because Darwin didn't study the way the universe was created, his field was much narrower, he was only interested in the way life evolved on earth. The argument the creationists give is of course where did the matter that started the "big bang" come from? There is of course no real answer except that the "big bang" was perhaps created by the collapse of a previously existing universe. Our universe will also collapse eventually and probably create another "big bang" and that "big bang" will create another universe and then that universe will collapse, etc. So there is no beggining or end, the cycle just continues over and over again. The "big bang" is now more than just speculation because astronomers have actually taken a picture of the center of the universe and have photographed the light created by the "big bang." This light has only just now reached us because when the "big bang" happened all the particles were traveling so fast that even the light couldn't keep up so the light energy has only just recently caught up with us because the expansion of the universe has slowed down.

Do you believe that we are the only civilization in the universe?

No I don't think we are the only civilization in the universe, however I don't believe that aliens have reached earth either. Scientists believe the nearest habitable planet to earth is so far away that it would take nearly one thousand years traveling at the speed of light for the aliens, if there are any, to reach earth.

Fancyman
25-11-2004, 06:35 AM
On the contrary my dear Barrington, I would hardly base my arguments on mere human technology, as we are not as we were. Do you always believe what is in front of you? Do you ever explore past the unknown?

How was the universe created? Lets think beyond the ‘Big Band’ it’s nonsense? What would cause the ‘Big Bang’? And, where did the matter that made up the ‘Big Bang’ come from?

The unknown is just that, unknown.

Wow. For a second that post sounded smart then I went back and reread it. Its retarded.

Maybe I just misunderstand you, but "We arent what we were" hardly seems a logical reason to doubt "human technology"

Quick tip in philosophy, you can't just make ironic or paradoxical questions and expect to be taken seriously. If you feel there is a flaw in our technology, you need to provide evidence or at least a reason for your suspicion. As Barrington said, we DO have ways of knowing the expanse of the universe. I'm not sure wether we can phyically see the entire universe, but we have a pretty good idea of what's out there.


What I was getting at was exorcism. If we have exorcists, there must be something for them to exorcize, hence an evil spirit of the sort. Exorcists primarialy deal with the possesed but also in cases such as poltergeists. So hence, why doubt the existance of a poltergeist if exorcist have been called apon to expel them?

Why are there preists if there is no God? Why are there phycics if there are no ghosts? Why are there abduction victims if three are no aliens? Where are there charges to my credit card that arent mine?
Liars, and con-men

IBO
25-11-2004, 04:08 PM
Fancyman to fully understand what I'm talking about can you please go read the 'Lost city of Atlantis' Thread. It is in general discussions in the second group. Thanks



Now back to the discussion.

Earth is our home, our only suitable home. We look to other planets to see if they too could be a home for us or are already home to other life forms. Now most people think that with billions of planets in a galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe that it is impossible for they're not to be hundreds of millions of different species. There is actually a formula to determine the number of planets that could hold intelligent life. Since there are a number of factors in the formula that must be considered I'll only mention a couple of the major factors that contribute to intelligent life. First there a planet most have a suitable solar system with a sun. Then there is a "spot" in the solar system where life is most likely to be. This is due to the size of the planet, its location from the sun, and its location in relationship to other planets. If a planet is to far from the sun then it will be too cold for life to survive. If it is to close, it will be too hot for life to survive. If the planet does not have gas giants to protect it from asteroids and other objects it will not survive for very long.

Some other major factors are the minerals on the planet and resources on a planet. You need certain elements such as water and energy (Lightning). With out these elements life will never start. Then once life starts you must have a stable atmosphere for about a billion years for life to progress to complex organisms. Now that there are creatures like frogs, dinosaurs, and other organisms that live on land there needs to be genetic mutations to create intelligent life, or the ability for creature to evolve. Every person remembers how dinosaurs became extinct right? Well if that hadn't happened then, intelligent life may never have existed. But that's off the subject. In conclusion there are most likely hundreds of millions of single celled organisms, but maybe only a couple thousand intelligent life forms and when you add distance into the formula then it seems unlikely for us to discover any of them. But who knows what the future may hold?...
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AliceinChains
26-11-2004, 03:27 AM
Posted by Fancyman
Why are there preists if there is no God? Why are there phycics if there are no ghosts? Why are there abduction victims if three are no aliens? Where are there charges to my credit card that arent mine?
Liars, and con-men

Perhaps Im an idiot but Im trying to understand your post. What exactlly are you getting at? You pose several questions and your only answer seems to be 'liars and con-men'. Are you saying that preist and physics are liars or are you posing it as a question as an agreement?

peace

barrington
26-11-2004, 08:29 PM
Put it this way - there are priests from every religion on earth. They cannot all be correct. This automatically invalidates all of them by default and logic.

Fancyman
27-11-2004, 02:42 PM
Exactly. What I am saying is that the existence of exorcists cannot stand alone as a valid arguement. My series of questions was illustrating this point. I though the sarcasm was quite blatant, but alas here I am explaining myself. People lie, cheat and scam their fellow man. If they think they can trick someone into believing you can extract the demon from someone, than they will wether their power is real or not.

IBO I read the atlantis bullshit, but I'm still lost by what your argument is. Here's my best guess. There was once a race who was more intelligent than we are....so we're wrong about the universe.
Do you mind filling in the gaps in your argument?
Or perhaps explain what your arguement is?