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acliff
07-11-2004, 11:50 PM
I have been on these forums from august 1st 2003.
In the 15 months that I have been part of this community, I've seen community spirit grow, destroyed, friendships forged, friendships broken.
I've seen forum politics at work, seen prejudice against newer members, seen illusions of grandeur at work amongst he KKW veterans.
So all in all, a pretty eclectic mix of components, all exploding from a virtually unknown forum dedicated to a then fairly unknown actress. How things have changed eh?

In the beginning, there was community spirit. First it was people banded together for their love and admiration of an actress who seemed like our little secret (in the flow of prose, I'm using the word 'our' to promote community spirit, even though this preceeded my arrival). Then she became hugely famous. From what I recall, everyone had fun. Bustling forums, interesting characters, humour, light hearted banter, less people taking things far too seriously. There was the occasional headcase, but the rest of us laughed at them afterwards.

Fast forward to now. Sometime between the last paragraph and this one, there was a massive server change, loss of forum database, members lost in the ether, and a couple of shiny new website revisions.
More important than that however, is from what I can see, a great deal of the friendly atmosphere was lost in this phase. With forum veterans thinking they own the place (there is only one person who does) without any merit whatsoever, taking it out on the new members, instead of welcoming them, like a decent community should, every post they type, including 3 word spam to be considered as gospel, and the rest.
And all this pointless bickering. Bickering is fine, but when people don't show the mental ability and integrity to back up what they say with a discussion or a finely crafted riposte, then it just gets plain irritating.
Then there is the growing group of people who are there just to irritate, and incite unrest. You know who you are.

I took a bit of a sojourn from kkw in the last couple of weeks, partially to see whether it was partly my fault why it is currently full of shit, and my departure would cure it, partially due to being busy with uni, and for various other equally valid reasons. Disappointment when I come back to find that its actually worse than it was before.

Before we descend further into a spiralling decline into despair under the shadow of its former glory, what can we do to make the forum better? Bear in mind this is a 'discussion'. Anyone can reply and be considered. If you post shit, then I will treat you accordingly.

Spire
08-11-2004, 12:12 AM
No more anti-country threads. Whether they're meant as humor or not, they're being taken as insulting.

Glare
08-11-2004, 12:43 AM
We seem to get huge increases in members when movies are released, so hopefully next year we should see more new faces of die-hard kk fans. From what I can see, we are getting many hundreds of thousands of hits to the gallery and it's pictures, but not so many people coming to the forum. If we could get 1% of those people to become a member and participate, things here would change overnight.

Narg
08-11-2004, 12:46 AM
Less locks. If people want to go off topic, and the person who made the thread dosnt care, and is willing to let the conversation go, then leave it for discussion.

Less posts from Duckula, all his posts are pointless and most are full of abuse.

Mags
08-11-2004, 12:53 AM
Correct grammar. It's so sexy. It's underestimated, but so necessary.

bob
08-11-2004, 01:18 AM
agree with mags, i do. and sorry if i've done anything to help kkw spiral miserably out of control.

just as spire suggested less anti-country threads, i'd suggest having less threads relating to US politics. i think the reason the board went downhill recently was because of the hype surrounding the US elections. it's caused kkwers to have an unhealthy fixation on america.

Renegade
08-11-2004, 01:40 AM
The oldest cliche in the book, but it rings true.

Get to know each other better:
-Private Message people you've never met; Start a friendly conversation. It won't hurt.
-Or go even further and get a hold of their screename and Instant Message them.
-And last but not least, go on IRC. It's a friendly place...most of the time.


There's too much patriotism floating around on both sides of the Atlantic. KKW is supposed to be a community, not a battlefront. Less ignorance and ego, and more openmindedness. Please?

Hazzle
08-11-2004, 03:29 AM
Meh...I do all that stuff to deflate arguments, contrary to popular belief...even Fox and Nearoka who've been the butt of two of my "feuds" have both gotten PMs or IMs to diffuse things and show there's no personal malice, just the spirit of banter and debate.

But clearly one of the moderator team has decided, unilaterally, that I am unwelcome. To be honest, I've done nothing to pretend I'm better than anyone else...some facts:

I ASKED to come back, and ASKED that it was put to ALL of the officers. Despite the fact I was never formally banned except on my OWN request...which means I shouldn't HAVE to go through the routine. Not only this, but I asked to banned at the time due to an issue with some members, but specifically, one, and ironically at a time when that one member should be sticking by his friend, he's not only decided not to, but decided, contrary to his desire NOT to argue and fight and berate me, and hence his decision, quite mature I thought, to cut off all communications, to not only fight with me, but to do so snidely and hiding behind his position as a moderator. It really is a shame to see him take such a balls-less route.

Secondly. I turned down ANY position of authority, officership OR the newswriter position that I EARNT and never did anything wrong in...in fact, despite your issue with one of my news posts, I never had a complaint from Andy, Liam or Barrington...if they had had an issue, I would have duly changed my efforts into something they thought more productive. Y'see the reason for me wanting to do the newswriting is I feel I write well, and it might've been MY way to give BACK. I actually ASKED to come back as a "mere" member, as one of the crowd, because that's all I see myself as. My feigned "superiority" has always been part of a larger gag...and everyone's always gotten it. That's why it's never been taken to be personal, and also why if it does, I make an effort to ensure things are smooth...contrary to popular belief I AM a nice guy.

Thirdly, I have never sought to inflame the patriotism threads as they needed chilling. I have sought to keep the politics threads heated, but only so long as it fuelled discussion, not bitching. The patriotism threads irk me, because humour is taken the wrong way. Oh, and look who started them...Barrington...the one guy who DOES own the place...and Duckula...a respected mod and former chief mod. You'll note I never did.

Finally...I've decided since this issue is so difficult to resolve, and since I am so clearly the cause of so many issues on the forums...I will take my leave. You see unlike you Cliff, when I threaten to leave, I at least follow through...for a few months at least. It's a shame you lacked the balls to do so...but if one of us had to be grown up about it...I'm glad it's me...I am the elder of us two...and I actually DO understand what friendship is about...it's a shame you don't. I was willing to give you time to cool down, because when you're not being a fucktard, you're actually one of the nicest guys I know...and in a weird sorta way I still care for you a great deal as a friend (ahh fuck it...I love you dude). I'm terribly hurt and disappointed you don't feel the same way...and to be honest I'm sick of this cos it brings out the worst in me.

So...goodbye again...heh...this is becoming a habit. And no, I'm pretty sure this time I won't be coming back...because I was actually asked by a LOT of people to come back this time...and when I finally gave in I clearly made a hideous mistake as it's been one fuck up after another...but never say never, eh? I said that last time...and look at me now :p My email and IM details are around somewhere...for those of you who give a shit...Vive La Wavefront (cos I actually want this place to be fun and successful like it used to be).

EDIT: Decided to check my PMs and I was also curious to know how this was taken...I expected it to be taken the wrong way, but such is life. My reason for posting here was because my suggestion for the betterment of KKW is Hazzle leaving. It may well be me being self-pitying (I do that a lot apparently...who knew?!) but I actually put it down to me doing a lot of the acts Cliff described, just with an entirely different psyche or intention. I never said I didn't do anything wrong, merely that my intentions were entirely different, and misunderstood. That may well be my fault for not communicating them clearly...I'm not attributing blame, surprisingly enough. I just wanted people to be clear on why I left. I had a personal reason for leaving too (I happen to value a friend above a mere website, even if that website was the vehicle by which I met them, and we just seem to be rubbing each other up the wrong way these days so it's simply not worth it), but the thing that finally made my mind up was I felt KKW was better off without my presence. Perhaps my style of posting was more suitable to the old forums, and as Cliff rightly pointed out, some people are unfamiliar with them and wouldn't per se understand little nuances that relate back. If it's merely causing antagonism here, I don't wish to be part of that. I had hoped (based on the comments of others, and my own inflated sense of self) that my presence would be a benefit, but evidence has shown otherwise.

For that I apologise...and hope that my proper intention can now be understood. Thank you, and good luck for the future of KKW. I wish you all, all the best.

Mandy
08-11-2004, 04:05 AM
*Sigh* ^^^ Bad example.

/me huggles KKW. <---good example.

Ashley
08-11-2004, 04:37 AM
Nice Mandy, Nice

I agree with the IRC thing. When IRC was in it's heyday so was KKW. I'm not saying they're related, but uhh... they're related.

ryan
08-11-2004, 04:46 AM
too much nazi modding, imo.
locking threads all over the place, yelling at people for getting off topic.

Leonie
08-11-2004, 06:21 AM
How about we all take things a tad less seriously, and realise this is an internet forum where we're supposed to have fun. Stop caring about what people you've never met and probably never will meet think of you. Realise that this whole subworld that is KKW is only that.

acliff
08-11-2004, 07:26 AM
Contrary to popular belief, you'll find that very few threads are locked nowadays. Even ones where people shout abuse at each other, mainly to see what happens.

I assume Nazi modding comments are partially aimed at me, and for those I have been harsh against, I stand by my decision that they whole heartedly deserve it.
I've locked 1 thread in the last 3-4 weeks? Yes, trigger happy mod cliff, I'm going crazy with my power.

And for Haz: You're right. I am a petulant child. I throw temper tantrums, and throw food everywhere. And when I left KKW, which was once, I returned because I was asked if I wanted to mod, as there was supposedly a KKW turnaround, and some part of me felt that I have an obligation as a long standing member to help the website how I can, and help it grow. I felt that I owed the website that much, for the uncountable hours that I've dedicated to it. What can I say, my principles are terrible, and I should have stuck to my guns, and never come back, just to prove a point. Much like you in a way...
Let me reiterate, you're completely right, and have never done anything wrong. Especially nothing recently which made me lose a great deal of respect for you as a friend and as a person, in which case that would be a huge slight on me personally, because I am heartless, cruel, and ignorant.
I don't know why, but the fact that you have to tell people and assure them that you're a nice person, and don't try and cause trouble 'contrary to popular belief', and constantly assure us (and yourself) that you are right, and lots of people wanted you back that really strikes a chord with me.
You know, friend, I really like you too, but it will take a substantial amount of time for the immature, ball-less, self righteous, disappointing side of me to stop hating your fucking guts.

To dispel all the love in the air, I'll get back on point.
IRC is a good idea, although I probably won't partake myself, because I almost failed my uni year due to it. We need more helping people with avatars, group projects (like the yearbook), helping people with their programming coursework ;), and the attitude that everyone is welcome. Back to the days when new members were something to be celebrated, instead of people thinking 'yet another fuckwit lamb to the slaughter' and I know that a fair few of us are guilty of that.

Secondly veterans (IRC regulars, old timers, trivia champs et all) need to sort out their superiority complexes. Remember your roots, and the fact that in these newer forums, alot of you look arrogant due to the fact that there is no evidence or participation to cement your respect and adoration. Respect is earned, and if most of the people haven't seen that, then naturally they're going to be critical.

Thats all for now, any more ideas, discussion?

Foeni
08-11-2004, 08:55 AM
IRC is a great way to get to know each other...
A good way to make this forum better (it's already good, no doubt about that) is to respect everyone equally. Take NearokA for instance. Everytime he makes a thread, quite a lot, includig severel officers/mods start picking on him... And spam. You might not like NearokA or his post, but you then, how about stop replying? It's mostly spam anyhow, which according to the rules: http://www.kkwavefront.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3330&postcount=1
is not allowed. Also your post have to add something to the 'healthy' discussion. Most of the post doesn't.... Just my humble opinion..

duckula
08-11-2004, 10:55 AM
I agree with Narg.

apoggy
08-11-2004, 11:12 AM
Just a quick point. How do people intend the moderating staff to do less, as it stands everybody has been given free reign and look where that got us.

In my opinion a bit of order would do the world of good. It would also be nice if the officers and mods gained a little respect form members, not that I'm saying they should get it undeservedly, because as I see it members don't give two shits if they are 'told off' or a thread gets locked. Ive sen numerous lock instances where a new thread bitching has been posted.

Its just not cricket

deviljet88
08-11-2004, 11:21 AM
Cya Hazzle (don't cut my hand off). Yep IRC is the place to be. I mean out of the kkw friends I've got, most I've made off IRC not the forums. Try making friends when everyone's screeching at each other. Though screechin on irc is the same... except you can put ignores on people.

ryan
08-11-2004, 11:34 AM
Contrary to popular belief, you'll find that very few threads are locked nowadays. Even ones where people shout abuse at each other, mainly to see what happens.

I assume Nazi modding comments are partially aimed at me, and for those I have been harsh against, I stand by my decision that they whole heartedly deserve it.


It was aimed at no one person. And if it was, it wouldn't have been you.

apoggy
08-11-2004, 11:46 AM
Well if you do have a problem with a mod/admin including me PM me, baz or liam and the problem can be sorted, we are a close nit group but I for one am not afraid to voice my personal opinion on this delicate situation.

Louie
08-11-2004, 08:20 PM
Don't all good things have to come to an end at some point or another? I think the problem with this forum compared to the older one is that this forum has had different members join, which means different results..........

bob
08-11-2004, 08:25 PM
How about we all take things a tad less seriously, and realise this is an internet forum where we're supposed to have fun. Stop caring about what people you've never met and probably never will meet think of you. Realise that this whole subworld that is KKW is only that.
everyone should take note.

frodo1511
08-11-2004, 10:41 PM
More bashing of the n00bs.

Edit: If you can't put constructive comments in a thread which is specifically designed to be constructive, do yourself the favour, and not put your fingers on your keyboard. All you do is show yourself to be unfunny, unintelligent, and immature.

apoggy
08-11-2004, 10:42 PM
More bashing of frodo for being a moronic fuckwit. I say less newb bashing, more established idiot bashing.

deviljet88
09-11-2004, 04:33 AM
I think newb bashing is a bit too cliche, its not something we see around here mainly. The members who are leaving or getting pissed are long established ones. But you can always give me examples of newb bashing if you think I'm wrong.

NearokA
09-11-2004, 05:22 AM
Let's start with love. hehe. You know, my first article was about love.

I love you all. You guys love me too? You know, whatever it is that you guys hate about me, live with it, cuz it ain't going to change. So if you think my love advice is shiet, don't click on it. lol. Or if you hate my keira letters or any topic I may have started while drunk in the general discussions, it's not going away until someone bans me, so what good does it do to bitch-piss-and moan?

Frankly, I could give a rat's ass about politcs and warfare, or even about getting laid. Women are generally boring (I still love them :p), I just did things to waste time. If I found the secret to getting hot models, would I be posting them here? Please forgive my inebriated brain, it knows not what it does.

As for the letters, I usually write a rough draft and post it on these forums before I actually mail them. I decide whether to write a new letter or revise based on some of your comments. Since most of the comments are useless, I now just post them for shits and beans and to piss off spire. hehe. Sometimes I make them intentionally retarded just to read the lame comments (some are actually helpful though). lol.

Ps: I'll write another poem. It'll be sometime this week though, I'm too damn lazy.

acliff
09-11-2004, 07:19 AM
Let's start with love. hehe. You know, my first article was about love.

I love you all. You guys love me too? You know, whatever it is that you guys hate about me, live with it, cuz it ain't going to change. So if you think my love advice is shiet, don't click on it. lol. Or if you hate my keira letters or any topic I may have started while drunk in the general discussions, it's not going away until someone bans me, so what good does it do to bitch-piss-and moan?

Frankly, I could give a rat's ass about politcs and warfare, or even about getting laid. Women are generally boring (I still love them :p), I just did things to waste time. If I found the secret to getting hot models, would I be posting them here? Please forgive my inebriated brain, it knows not what it does.

As for the letters, I usually write a rough draft and post it on these forums before I actually mail them. I decide whether to write a new letter or revise based on some of your comments. Since most of the comments are useless, I now just post them for shits and beans and to piss off spire. hehe. Sometimes I make them intentionally retarded just to read the lame comments (some are actually helpful though). lol.

Ps: I'll write another poem. It'll be sometime this week though, I'm too damn lazy.

Stop posting bullshit. In the relationship forum, anywhere else, and especially in this thread.
Firstly you complain that people are out to get you? Thats because they are. Would you like to know why? As you can appreciate, other people have opinions, and on the whole they think you have no idea what you're talking about. And they tell you. What if people CAN'T live with what you say?
One step to avoiding this, would be to accept criticism, and accept the fact that you might actually be wrong. How can you be part of a community, if you don't actually care whether people read your posts, and don't actually listen to anything they say?
Everything that you say ends up with animosity towards you, or what you say.
The consistency suggests that that is mostly your fault.

Secondly, read what you've just written.

Since most of the comments are useless, I now just post them for shits and beans and to piss off spire. hehe. Sometimes I make them intentionally retarded just to read the lame comments (some are actually helpful though). lol.

I'm pretty sure that classifies as spam and anti forum behaviour. If you want to see change, do something personally to change it. That goes for every single one of you. You can bitch and moan, whine that it isn't working, but as everyone is at fault, surely a good place to start putting it right is within ourselves?

Nearoka, if you don't get rid of your arrogant, self righteous attitude, and stop posting shit, and that complaining you do when other people think its shit, then I don't think you are part of the KKW grand solution, and a sacrifice (well deserved) may be in order. That is warning 2.
And if you tell me you love me one more time, I will do whatever is in my power to make your life living hell. I am Nearokaphobic.

Carry on.

barrington
09-11-2004, 03:30 PM
In this thread, everyone's opinion is valid and valued.

Narg
09-11-2004, 11:57 PM
Posts like cliffs 2 above are things that make this forum go to the shit. Personal attacks, and ripping off people, and tormenting people for having different beleifs. If that post isnt trying to insight an argument, please correct me, because it sure looks like a hell of a large bitch fight.

acliff
10-11-2004, 12:17 AM
Posts like cliffs 2 above are things that make this forum go to the shit. Personal attacks, and ripping off people, and tormenting people for having different beleifs. If that post isnt trying to insight an argument, please correct me, because it sure looks like a hell of a large bitch fight.

I feel like I should correct you. But if I do so, are you going to tell me that it is your opinion, and I have no right to criticise it, or tell you that I think its wrong?

I was telling Nearoka that instead of complaining, he should stop posting shite purely for the reason of seeing what happens, i.e. 'Since most of the comments are useless, I now just post them for shits and beans and to piss off spire. hehe. Sometimes I make them intentionally retarded just to read the lame comments' because thats not going to help matters is it?

I appreciate what you're saying, but you, amongst many others have also been guilty of making personal attacks, ripping off people, and tormenting people. in addition to posting spam. And I am willing to change that, if everyone else is willing to. For I don't want to be a hypocrite about all of this.

Narg
10-11-2004, 04:41 AM
I appreciate what you're saying, but you, amongst many others have also been guilty of making personal attacks, ripping off people, and tormenting people. in addition to posting spam. And I am willing to change that, if everyone else is willing to. For I don't want to be a hypocrite about all of this.

Ive layed off as of late, cbf with forum arguments, there pointless.

Mandy
10-11-2004, 01:16 PM
Ive layed off as of late, cbf with forum arguments, there pointless.

I need to find that picture that says, "Fighting over the internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

AureaMediocritas
10-11-2004, 02:23 PM
I need to find that picture that says, "Fighting over the internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

That was cruel :) .

acliff
10-11-2004, 05:18 PM
Will you stay on topic please? If you have nothing worthwhile to say, please don't post, and also don't repost things I deleted because it made absolutely no contribution to what we're trying to achieve.

apoggy
10-11-2004, 06:09 PM
I find that one of the main problems which we have is that the moderation team dont command the respect that they once did due to their enforced laxness. Due to this people see them as a soft touch and try to exploit any weaknesses they can. I tell you this, I for one am totally behind the team and will not stand for dissention in the ranks.

Leonie
13-11-2004, 02:16 PM
Something else - leave the bitching to moderators, k? I mean comments such as 'speak English already' and the like. The 'report a bad post' option is there for a reason. We're not stupid. If we feel something should be done, we will. If nothing's been done, you don't have to. Ever heard of this wonderful invention called 'PM's'? Did it ever cross your mind that maybe we decided to deal with it in a less public manner?

Renegade
13-11-2004, 02:22 PM
Leonie's right.

On another note, we need more threads. Granted they must be interesting and not spam, there needs to be more of them. Go start a thread! (But no :icon_spam)

deviljet88
14-11-2004, 02:26 AM
Hm, didn't the bitching of you moderators make a few of our members leave?

Mandy
14-11-2004, 06:13 AM
Something else - leave the bitching to moderators, k? I mean comments such as 'speak English already' and the like. The 'report a bad post' option is there for a reason. We're not stupid. If we feel something should be done, we will. If nothing's been done, you don't have to. Ever heard of this wonderful invention called 'PM's'? Did it ever cross your mind that maybe we decided to deal with it in a less public manner?

So in other words...."Haha, you can't but I can." ? :D

acliff
14-11-2004, 07:18 AM
So in other words...."Haha, you can't but I can." ? :D

In the ideal of the moderators actually 'moderating' *shock horror*, yes. Thank you for clearing that up.
And DevilJet, Leonie is using 'bitching' as an umbrella term for people tellings others to do things (or not as the case may be). In reference to the vigilante posts where people have a go at others for posting spam, and spelling things wrong... and then having a go at the moderators for being too harsh... *scratches head*

Fancyman
18-11-2004, 03:28 AM
I think we need more Fancyman, or at least a little more funny. What made the site so fun a year aog was the fact that i laughed everytime i read the forum. I would read the forum at least twice a day. Not quite the case anymore. I admit my opinion means shit after my extended absence, but i thought I'd comment. Carry on.

seventhson
18-11-2004, 04:18 AM
Yeah, if you can't laugh with me, you can still laugh at me... I don't mind. I'm used to it. I 've had six older brothers laughing at me for 40 years now. What ya gonna do, hurt my feelings? Ha Ha Ha, He He He, Ha Ha Ha, He He He, Ha Ha Ha, He He He, Ha Ha Ha, He He He...
Mo funny please?

Peace,
(-: SeventhSon :-)

PS. can you smell that?

welchy
21-12-2004, 05:34 PM
i know im new but i agree with what acliff is saying. moderators should moderate properly. respect should be given to all even newbies and shit shouldnt be posted .you post if you have something to say not to fill up space .im a member of another film forum and things there have never been better .everyone respects each other .posts are intellegent and moderators actually moderate.i will try my best to improve this forum . i wont post crap or abuse other members.i just hope other do the same

acliff
21-12-2004, 11:14 PM
i know im new but i agree with what acliff is saying. moderators should moderate properly. respect should be given to all even newbies and shit shouldnt be posted .you post if you have something to say not to fill up space .im a member of another film forum and things there have never been better .everyone respects each other .posts are intellegent and moderators actually moderate.i will try my best to improve this forum . i wont post crap or abuse other members.i just hope other do the same

Welcome to our corner of the web.
Correct punctuation is not compulsary, but actively encouraged by the way :)

FooTM
23-12-2004, 01:23 AM
Having being a uk.playstation.com member for over two years, I've obviously been through thick and thin. Its not so much a playstation forum anymore, its a games forum where the community is so strong, its unbelieveable. We have all different characters posting regularly - you've got trollers, spammers, 1st/2nd/3rd gen forumers, some forumers even split off to create their own forum, now known as www.rustyjoystick.com, an online community and pub of some sorts.

Seeing this type of post is no new news to me, as it happens every two months on ps.com :icon_lol: What I'm trying to say (and obviously failing so far) is that this type of thing will always happen - whatever you try to do, it'll happen again and again. Try to make a good situation out of a bad one :)

Anyway, for some ideas, how about some graphical competitions, some organised quizzes....etc.

Am I just repeating stuff thats already been said? I havn't looked at any of the posts in this topic yet :icon_lol: