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View Full Version : Props to John Kerry...


hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 06:40 PM
...for doing the right thing and conceding.
I've been listening to the community radio station here, and have been appalled at the number of people who seem absolutely incapable of accepting that he lost. People are e-mailing these ridiculous diatribes about rigged machines and how Kerry couldn't have lost because of the exit poll results.
I'm just glad that John Kerry and the Democratic Party have taken the high road and conceded the election. Contesting results and endless litigation would only serve to further polarize an already divided nation. Sadly, there seems to be enough blind hatred out there to prevent a certain segment of the population from accepting the results. I'm happy to see that mentality isn't present here. So far, the only reaction here has been to tie a good drunk on. I'll drink to that. :)

Jacoby
03-11-2004, 07:11 PM
I didn't read all of your post, then I wrote "If Kerry hadn't conceded it would have ploarized our nation even more than it already is." Then, I noticed you had practically the same sentence in there, just more well worded. So I didn't post it and I ran away. But yes, I agree with you.

Sarah
03-11-2004, 07:14 PM
How many posts do we need about the election?

Jacoby
03-11-2004, 07:16 PM
How many posts do we need about the election?

You're right. We should start a sub-forum for it.

Richard
03-11-2004, 07:43 PM
You're right. We should start a sub-forum for it.

We should make a sub-forum about movies... but that's just getting off topic.

Uma Thurman supported the Kerry campaign. She must be crushed. Shame on those who hurt my Uma. May they burn in hell. :mad:

Foeni
03-11-2004, 08:57 PM
Don't read my lates post in the M! thread, Richard.. ;)
I, too, am happy that Bush is gonna win (so it seems..). Reason, you might ask? Here it is: http://www.kkwavefront.org/forums/showpost.php?p=22907&postcount=8

marry rich people
03-11-2004, 09:45 PM
Uma Thurman supported the Kerry campaign.

Props to those rich people that can look past their money and tax cuts they might get and concentrate on what really matters to them.

Jacoby
03-11-2004, 09:48 PM
Props to those rich people that can look past their money and tax cuts they might get and concentrate on what really matters to them.

Except most of them did it for publicity. At least, I think they did.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 10:26 PM
Props to those rich people that can look past their money and tax cuts they might get and concentrate on what really matters to them.

Problem is...all those rich people insist on making government responsible for the tab. Stem cell research is now a three-billion dollar burden on the California taxpayers. This should be funded privately. Brad Pitt and Dustin Hoffman supported it, but they've left it up to the taxpayers of California to pay for it. Getting the government involved will only drive up the cost. Private firms would do a much better, much more cost effective job.

frodo1511
03-11-2004, 10:32 PM
Let's just say Kerry took it like a man...;P

marry rich people
03-11-2004, 10:55 PM
Problem is...all those rich people insist on making government responsible for the tab. Stem cell research is now a three-billion dollar burden on the California taxpayers. This should be funded privately. Brad Pitt and Dustin Hoffman supported it, but they've left it up to the taxpayers of California to pay for it. Getting the government involved will only drive up the cost. Private firms would do a much better, much more cost effective job.

I like your idea, hasselbrad. Too bad you voted for Bush.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 11:05 PM
I like your idea, hasselbrad. Too bad you voted for Bush.

Hey...at least we can have a rational political discussion without slinging words like "Nazi" around.
I don't support a lot of what Bush has done. I probably would have voted for Joseph Lieberman if he had been the Democratic nominee.

DragonRat
04-11-2004, 12:02 AM
I suppose the name of John F. Kerry came three letters too wrong to be someone favorable to the Democratic vote in the nation. As a viewer who's political interest might be burgeoning from hence, it seems that the Democratic Party itself might need to look within and find someone amongst who can truly pull off a charismatic coup in the likes of Bill Clinton. That may end up being William Jefferson's own wife. I mean, it's kharmic for a dynasty to begin where another ends.

Hazzle
04-11-2004, 02:23 AM
Hey...at least we can have a rational political discussion without slinging words like "Nazi" around.
I don't support a lot of what Bush has done. I probably would have voted for Joseph Lieberman if he had been the Democratic nominee.

And you are by NO means the only person who voted for Bush who said that...methinks the Democrats fucked up.

And if they're not careful they may end up seeing a long line of Republican presidents, punctuated every so often by a democrat unable to pass anything thanks to a heavily stacked Legislature and Supreme Court...

God I love how the American system of politics is so fucked up.

Incidentally...back on topic...I agree...Kerry did exactly the right thing...there was, and maybe still might be, talk of Bush bringing in democrats on his cabinet since the divisions have been so strong, the passions so heated...y'know with vandalism and shit...that's not politics...that's anarchy and it's bad for the country as a whole.

<shrugs> But props to Kerry...good man. To be honest though, he probably should've conceded last night when Ohio was called for Bush...but let's not be picky. I did say I thought Bush'd take Ohio and Florida with Kerry taking the third swing state Pennsylvania...God I love it when I'm right (hopes noone will point out his other mistaken call :p)

Renegade
04-11-2004, 04:21 AM
...God I love it when I'm right (hopes noone will point out his other mistaken call :p)

It was obvious CA was going to Kerry (55 electoral votes at stake). Because if CA wasn't going to Kerry, people wouldn't have been so skeptical about the potential outcome. I should not speak against Haz, he probably knows way more about US politics than the average American. But anyway, just wanted to point that out :p.

My english teacher actually stopped in the middle of her lecture and brought in a TV so the class could watch Kerry admit defeat. Awesome.

Elijahfan
04-11-2004, 04:51 AM
my history teacher spent all of today explaining the electoral college, it's good system but could still use a little reform,though that will never happen....go nader!

sad kerry lost, i'm mad about it but not like scary mad. though every time my friend says "4 more years" and i add "of crap". pisses me off that some people make their decision just based on the abortion position of a party, or gay marriages. most the kids in my school do that, they dont factor in health care plans or taxes, or espeically the war and the facts about the war.

the rich movie stars should be paying for the stem cell research, that justs a burden on california, seriously the celebrities can fund it themselves, and i'm for the research too but come on....rich bastards.

i live in minnesota so we were one of the swing states, i think we went to bush, stupid rich edina people.....we used to be democrat state...i dont know where it switched. i think mn pretty split on D and R still. i dont know about other people, but everyone's super glad the elections are over here....being a swing state the campaigning on tv was fucking insane! every commerical was about voting.

Renegade
04-11-2004, 04:56 AM
the rich movie stars should be paying for the stem cell research, that justs a burden on california, seriously the celebrities can fund it themselves, and i'm for the research too but come on....rich bastards.

Yeah I know. Why does California have to be the forefront for research and funding if the stem cells are to be used for the better of America? I'm confused :icon_conf (and probably ignorant)

Nick
04-11-2004, 04:59 AM
Oh goody, four more years of Georges tyranny, oh oops I mean benevolence. Well sadly our only hope now is that he does something really stupid and gets impeached. I can dream right? Anyway I'm going to start building my bomb shelter now as this country is fucked.

ryan
04-11-2004, 05:01 AM
Oh goody, four more years of Georges tyranny, oh oops I mean benevolence. Well sadly our only hope now is that he does something really stupid and gets impeached. I can dream right? Anyway I'm going to start building my bomb shelter now as this country is fucked.

Like our last democratic president, right? :)

Elijahfan
04-11-2004, 05:15 AM
yeah, nick...that just sucks for you...hey we both had,well you currently have a govenor from the movie prediator....for the record, i did support the beginning of that trend in minnesota.

yep..moving to canada... not that far away for me...road trip! and i like it cold!

Liam
04-11-2004, 11:21 AM
What I dont understand is all the bitching and moaning that Bush won, even though only 25% of eligible voters could be bothered enough to get off their arse and have their say. Next time I hear someone moaning on TV that Bush sucks, I'm just going to laugh. Should have voted then, eh?

For a country that bills itself as powerful and wise, I find that fucking pathetic.

Although at the same time I'm glad Bush won.

hasselbrad
04-11-2004, 11:54 AM
What I dont understand is all the bitching and moaning that Bush won, even though only 25% of eligible voters could be bothered enough to get off their arse and have their say. Next time I hear someone moaning on TV that Bush sucks, I'm just going to laugh. Should have voted then, eh?

For a country that bills itself as powerful and wise, I find that fucking pathetic.

Although at the same time I'm glad Bush won.

And, for all of the "Vote or Die" bullshit, the percentage of 18-29 year olds was exactly the same as 2000.

Mags
04-11-2004, 01:57 PM
God, that does piss me off. Voter apathy is retarded. Stupid fuckwads who can't get off their asses and vote...well, luckily maybe with this president they'll be punished, perhaps with the denial of a few civil liberties.


What sucks, is all of us that DID vote will lose em too. Awesome America.


Fucking awesome.

Spire
04-11-2004, 02:13 PM
I can bitch about the president if I vote or I don't vote (I did). First off, the president we vote for very often turns out to be completely different when he steps into office. And secondly, in some states, it wouldn't matter who I vote for. I live in Texas, and it's going to be Republican, pretty much no matter what.

Foeni
04-11-2004, 08:50 PM
Liam, if you think these people bitch about Bush having won the election... I haven't yet found ANYONE at my age (except for myself) who's happy Bush won.. Everyone is is like 'OMG, what the fuck is wrong with those stupid Americans?!?'. And so does my history teacher.. She is so fucked, too.. It's just nice to see that people in here are more serious than saying "Fuck Bush, he's soooo fucked" while giving Bush a moustache like Hitler's (on pictures).

Jacoby
04-11-2004, 09:00 PM
yeah, nick...that just sucks for you...hey we both had,well you currently have a govenor from the movie prediator....


I think Nick lives in Oregon. Ahnuld is guv'ner of California.

And about the electoral college; methinks it's not necessary. It was created when people weren't educated about political candidates because of the lack of technology. Now with the the internet, television, and everything else, it's safe to say everyone hears enough about the candidates to make a proper, fair decision.

I'm gonna miss the laughs we had, John Kerry. And the way you'd keep me warm with your voice. Jacoby report-re-*sniffles* reporting...for...duty.

AureaMediocritas
04-11-2004, 09:03 PM
I am glad Bush won , I will be able to drive my car for such a long time still !!!
With a bit of luck , petrol prices will decrease once he has conquered all the
petrol exporting countries... (sounds gay , I know)

Kelsey
04-11-2004, 10:30 PM
I'm glad that Bush won. Kerry's a dumbass. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that Seth Myers was hilarious as Kerry on SNL. Plus, it's kind of too bad that we're gonna have to listen to Ben Affleck bitch for another four years. I could live without that.

ryan
04-11-2004, 11:03 PM
Liam, if you think these people bitch about Bush having won the election... I haven't yet found ANYONE at my age (except for myself) who's happy Bush won.. Everyone is is like 'OMG, what the fuck is wrong with those stupid Americans?!?'. And so does my history teacher.. She is so fucked, too.. It's just nice to see that people in here are more serious than saying "Fuck Bush, he's soooo fucked" while giving Bush a moustache like Hitler's (on pictures).

You're not even American. Don't overconcern yourself with who we elect our President. And people need to quit with the "OMG Bush got re-elected, every country in the world is going to die now" attitudes. Get real.

marry rich people
05-11-2004, 12:18 AM
sad kerry lost, i'm mad about it but not like scary mad. though every time my friend says "4 more years" and i add "of crap". pisses me off that some people make their decision just based on the abortion position of a party, or gay marriages. most the kids in my school do that, they dont factor in health care plans or taxes, or espeically the war and the facts about the war.

Couldn't agree more. I hate when people do that. They think "Oh, tax cuts. Why wouldn't you want those?" and they just vote without thinking about any of the other ideas the candidate has. Also pisses me off when people vote for the party and not the person. The parties are so general that you never know what each candidate is going to do. Another annoyance I have (probably the biggest one) is when people vote for someone because they are "better off than they were 4 years ago" or whatever. People need to look at the nation and world as a whole and vote based on that. I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat or what but that's just self-centered.

Jacoby
05-11-2004, 12:41 AM
You're not even American. Don't overconcern yourself with who we elect our President. And people need to quit with the "OMG Bush got re-elected, every country in the world is going to die now" attitudes. Get real.

Seriously. Everyone seems to think now that Bush has been re-elected he's going to do all sorts of ridiculous things. People think that he's just going to fuck everything up, but I think they should get real, as you said. Like everyone would just sit back and watch him destroy America without doing anything. For most of us, this won't affect us in the least.

Liam
05-11-2004, 01:28 AM
You're not even American. Don't overconcern yourself with who we elect our President. And people need to quit with the "OMG Bush got re-elected, every country in the world is going to die now" attitudes. Get real.

No, thats right. I'm concerned about it because our country, along with a number of others, tends to trapes around after yours. Believe it or not, the result of the election *does* concern other countries.

Either way, 25% turnout is shit, no matter which light you look at it in. Hasselbrad seems to have been the only one who understood my first post.

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 01:36 AM
It was obvious CA was going to Kerry (55 electoral votes at stake). Because if CA wasn't going to Kerry, people wouldn't have been so skeptical about the potential outcome. I should not speak against Haz, he probably knows way more about US politics than the average American. But anyway, just wanted to point that out :p.


Bastard :p

Actually I wonder how tight it was...because CA is usually a HEARTLAND Democrat state but I'm not so sure these days. I mean Kelsey backed Bush, if memory serves...and she can't be the only one...and Arnie got the job as Governor...is CA becoming more conservative (well the rest of the US is)? And yes, I do think the rest of the US is...proof? Bush SCRAPED the last election and he was standing as a moderate conservative. This time round he stood as a HARDCORE conservative...with his views on abortion, gay marriage etc all widely reported...and he STILL won by...and get this...a BIGGER MARGIN. He actually won the popular vote this time...so that must spell a trend.

What I dont understand is all the bitching and moaning that Bush won, even though only 25% of eligible voters could be bothered enough to get off their arse and have their say. Next time I hear someone moaning on TV that Bush sucks, I'm just going to laugh. Should have voted then, eh?

For a country that bills itself as powerful and wise, I find that fucking pathetic.

Although at the same time I'm glad Bush won.

I cannot agree more with everything he said...I just felt it was so right it deserved repeating.

Liam, if you think these people bitch about Bush having won the election... I haven't yet found ANYONE at my age (except for myself) who's happy Bush won.. Everyone is is like 'OMG, what the fuck is wrong with those stupid Americans?!?'. And so does my history teacher.. She is so fucked, too.. It's just nice to see that people in here are more serious than saying "Fuck Bush, he's soooo fucked" while giving Bush a moustache like Hitler's (on pictures).

That's because most people your age are retarded. I mean sheesh...all this equating Bush with Hitler...whether you agree with his policies or not...ffs...Bush isn't a genocidal dictator. If he's extreme it's because he believes most of America is too...and that gives him license to be free in expressing his views (and he's as entitled as anyone to hold and express those views)...and given his mandate he has every right to think that he's merely representing most Americans. I mean if Kerry had won I very much doubt people would be as extremist in their hatred of him...largely as the man engenders NO passionate response one way or the other. This was largely an election between Bush and the Anti-Bush...:D Kerry? Who's he? ;)

I think Nick lives in Oregon. Ahnuld is guv'ner of California.

True story.

And about the electoral college; methinks it's not necessary. It was created when people weren't educated about political candidates because of the lack of technology. Now with the the internet, television, and everything else, it's safe to say everyone hears enough about the candidates to make a proper, fair decision.

Couldn't agree more. I mean the idea is that the EC is supposed to ensure no tyranny of the majority...but c'mon...the alternative is a president who gets less than his opponent (as Bush did last time) which is just bonkers. I don't think that Presidents should need more than 50%, but they should at least need more votes than their opponent (for those too slow to understand...it was possible, but unlikely, that, for example, Nader could've gotten 3%...with Bush getting 49% and Kerry 48%...that would at least be better than a situation where a president gets less than his nearest rival but wins).

I'm gonna miss the laughs we had, John Kerry. And the way you'd keep me warm with your voice. Jacoby report-re-*sniffles* reporting...for...duty.

Heh...the draft jokes aren't funny anymore...I'm willing to bet there will NOT be a draft. Bush'll probably get Blair to send in more British troops before he does a draft (and the cunting thing is Blair'll probably agree...but it's all in a good cause at least).

Jacoby
05-11-2004, 01:41 AM
Heh...the draft jokes aren't funny anymore...I'm willing to bet there will NOT be a draft. Bush'll probably get Blair to send in more British troops before he does a draft (and the cunting thing is Blair'll probably agree...but it's all in a good cause at least).

Kerry used to say "Reporting for duty" all the time. I was mocking that. Geez.

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 01:45 AM
Kerry used to say "Reporting for duty" all the time. I was mocking that. Geez.

I know...at least as far as I understood it that was Kerry's way of making a snide comment about the draft...but maybe I credit him with more intelligence than he has (personally...I think he DID mean it that way...and it's clever politics :p)

Elijahfan
05-11-2004, 02:16 AM
jacoby brought up a good point "For most of us, this won't affect us in the least" but i the truth is that it does...the policies that the president helps state with the senate,congress, cabinet, etc. do affect people. health care, taxes, the price of gas. of course i mean this in general,for both parties, not just bush's policies and decisions.

Ashley
05-11-2004, 04:10 AM
I'm glad that Bush won. Kerry's a dumbass.

I'm not meaning to start a war... but that's just... made me speechless. Probably a good thing at this point...


And I'd think the reporting for duty would be, if it even was a snide comment, a comment on how he actually went to war.

Mags
05-11-2004, 04:53 AM
For most of us, this won't affect us in the least.

I'm a woman, I'm pro-choice, so Bush's second term could affect me a GREAT deal.

It has been estimated that during the next 4 years, we could have to confirm up to 4 more justices to the Supreme Court. With the ailing health of Chief Justice Rehnquist, there will soon be an immediate need for a new Supreme Court Justice. It is quite likely that the Bush administration will seek to name incredibly conservative candidates. With the current conservative justices, the Supreme Court would likely become a conservative powerhouse. Once they have a majority, it's likely that they will seek to reverse current rulings on issues like abortion. And since the Republicans now have a majority in the House and the Senate, it's likely the candidates would be confirmed. This is a very real issue, which could concievably have ramifications for the next 40 years as justices are appointed for life.

And I'm not gay, but I don't...I don't understand, on any level, what allowing gay marriage does to somehow threaten marriage between a man and a woman. Bush campaigned on that issue, and it is incredibly likely his administration (I'm not going to make the mistake of assuming that Bush has all that much to do with policy decisions) will seek to fulfill that as a way to complete campaign promises.

I find health care to be a huge issue as well. I'm not suggesting nationalized health care. I'm really not. But something needs to be done. The way things are set up now, it is...so difficult to get by on the prescriptions needed with the money available as a senior citizen. It's...so difficult. And making health care and prescriptions more available and affordable is incredibly important to me. The...current legislation being suggested that outlaws getting cheaper prescriptions from Canada...is ridiculous. It's one way our citizens can get affordable medicine, and if it weren't taking profits away from huge drug companies that support so many members of Congress, it wouldn't be this big an issue. We could perhaps *gasp* even negotiate trade that would still allow us to get cheaper medicines and offer them at a lower cost to US citizens.

I don't care as much about foreign issues. I know it's a big deal, and I know that the United States is in a position of power to influence several other countries. But I'm much more concerned about the situation here. We...claim to have gone to this country to make it free...to remove a dictatorial despot. But...if our civil liberties at home are disappearing, if people can't afford the medicine they need...what the fuck are we fighting for? We're trying to...or claiming to...set this example of what a powerful country should do. But we're not taking care of our own citizens. And that pisses me off. If it means we have to become isolationist again to get this done, that's fine with me. Lets get it done.

Edit:
I remembered something else. I was riding in a cab this morning and the driver was listening to this conservative talk radio show. Which I didn't want to listen to, but whatever. Anyway, this guy calls in and says "It's freedom. I can do whatever I want. That's what being American is all about"
And I seriously wanted to throw up. That's just...so wrong. Being born in America does NOT give you carte blanche to do whateverthefuck you want. If you want to be a worthwhile symbol of America, how bout you actually respect the rest of the world and don't assume that your birthplace gives you the right to be a shithead fucktard.

Ashley
05-11-2004, 05:04 AM
Edit:
I remembered something else. I was riding in a cab this morning and the driver was listening to this conservative talk radio show. Which I didn't want to listen to, but whatever. Anyway, this guy calls in and says "It's freedom. I can do whatever I want. That's what being American is all about"
And I seriously wanted to throw up. That's just...so wrong. Being born in America does NOT give you carte blanche to do whateverthefuck you want. If you want to be a worthwhile symbol of America, how bout you actually respect the rest of the world and don't assume that your birthplace gives you the right to be a shithead fucktard.

Sounds like someone that Ann Coulter would talk to. God she's terrible.

But you're absolutely correct. If everyone felt the way this guy did then the American symbol would be the drunk fat redneck sitting in his double wide with a 6er of Blue Ribbon.

duckula
05-11-2004, 01:47 PM
Liam, are you sure about that 25% figure, it doesn't quite ring true.

CFC
05-11-2004, 01:58 PM
Try 60% (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/voter.turnout.ap/)



I'm a woman, I'm pro-choice, so Bush's second term could affect me a GREAT deal.

It has been estimated that during the next 4 years, we could have to confirm up to 4 more justices to the Supreme Court. With the ailing health of Chief Justice Rehnquist, there will soon be an immediate need for a new Supreme Court Justice. It is quite likely that the Bush administration will seek to name incredibly conservative candidates. With the current conservative justices, the Supreme Court would likely become a conservative powerhouse. Once they have a majority, it's likely that they will seek to reverse current rulings on issues like abortion. And since the Republicans now have a majority in the House and the Senate, it's likely the candidates would be confirmed. This is a very real issue, which could concievably have ramifications for the next 40 years as justices are appointed for life.

I don't support killing babies and I think the supreme court will go conservative. That is the way America leans though so it makes since.

And I'm not gay, but I don't...I don't understand, on any level, what allowing gay marriage does to somehow threaten marriage between a man and a woman. Bush campaigned on that issue, and it is incredibly likely his administration (I'm not going to make the mistake of assuming that Bush has all that much to do with policy decisions) will seek to fulfill that as a way to complete campaign promises.

Gay marrige lost in all states it was on the ballot for. I don't see why gay people can't be happy with a civil union that gives them equal benefits.

I find health care to be a huge issue as well. I'm not suggesting nationalized health care. I'm really not. But something needs to be done. The way things are set up now, it is...so difficult to get by on the prescriptions needed with the money available as a senior citizen. It's...so difficult. And making health care and prescriptions more available and affordable is incredibly important to me. The...current legislation being suggested that outlaws getting cheaper prescriptions from Canada...is ridiculous. It's one way our citizens can get affordable medicine, and if it weren't taking profits away from huge drug companies that support so many members of Congress, it wouldn't be this big an issue. We could perhaps *gasp* even negotiate trade that would still allow us to get cheaper medicines and offer them at a lower cost to US citizens.

Social Healthcare sucks and it is anti captialistic. I don't want my taxes going through the roof to pay for somebody elses health.

I don't care as much about foreign issues. I know it's a big deal, and I know that the United States is in a position of power to influence several other countries. But I'm much more concerned about the situation here. We...claim to have gone to this country to make it free...to remove a dictatorial despot. But...if our civil liberties at home are disappearing, if people can't afford the medicine they need...what the fuck are we fighting for? We're trying to...or claiming to...set this example of what a powerful country should do. But we're not taking care of our own citizens. And that pisses me off. If it means we have to become isolationist again to get this done, that's fine with me. Lets get it done.

Last time I check, I was not missing any civil liberties. What civil liberties are you talking about?

Ashley
05-11-2004, 06:41 PM
Gay marrige lost in all states it was on the ballot for. I don't see why gay people can't be happy with a civil union that gives them equal benefits.


I don't see why they have to settle. I'm not gay either, but I have many friends that are, and they don't want to settle. Does it hurt anyone else if they get married? Fuck no. America is supposed to be "the land of the free" well, it's not.


Last time I check, I was not missing any civil liberties. What civil liberties are you talking about?

You must not have checked since 2001, it's called the US PATRIOT Act. Look it up.

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 08:14 PM
And I'd think the reporting for duty would be, if it even was a snide comment, a comment on how he actually went to war.

That too. I wasn't berating the man...but he lost...end of story. I'll give him credit for the "reporting for duty" line, and to be honest, though he ran entirely the wrong campaign and was ALWAYS going to lose in my book given his stance on the war...he was largely hamstrung by the fact he had to keep the anti-war democrats (ie the majority) on-side.

The democrats need to resolve their differences...and try and be more moderate. They have to accept that the US electorate right now IS shifting towards conservatism. This is shown by how Bush ran as a hardline conservative and won more votes, and more electoral college votes, than he did running as a moderate conservative last time. I think they should take a leaf out of the Labour Party's book...sell out your idealistic dogma and try and focus on pragmatic electioneering. It needn't be a permanent shift...a temporary one will do...just to return faith in the Democrat party as a party of government. It would also help out winning back Congress, which has to be part of the Democrat agenda too.

I mean under Clinton's successful presidency...didn't the Democrats lose more Governorships and more seats in Congress than under any other president in recent history? I think I remember hearing that stat (but don't quote me on that). Either way...it's got to be a concern for the Democrats that they're losing to conservatism across the board...Governorships...Congress...I think even State legislatures too...

The Patriot Act has yet to be ruled unconstitutional so as yet it's premature to say it actually strips you of any civil rights you had. It may strip you of rights you THOUGHT you had and didn't...people really are poorly educated on what rights they do and do not have...Mags' cab driver is a perfect example, ironically enough.

I disagree with the gay marriage and abortion stance that Bush campaigned on. However people really are forgetting something...Bush can do whatever the fuck he likes as he's not standing for reelection (as he can't). Just a thought...but if I was Bush I wouldn't be reversing abortion law or banning gay marriage UNLESS I felt it would be a good long-lasting legacy to leave. He'd only believe that if he thinks most of America agrees...and whether you personally do or not...the election shows he'd be right to think that. If he makes abortions harder, and ensures that gay marriage stays illegal...then such is life...I may not like it but tough...it's what the majority of America wanted.

I could understand the Democrats being angry after GORE lost, as at least he won the popular vote...but ffs shut up and accept Kerry LOST because MORE people wanted Bush than wanted Kerry...if you don't like it...deal with it. I didn't vote Labour...yet I'm ruled by a Labour government...such is life. Deal with it. I'm sorry, I like both of you girls...but the way democrat voters are behaving makes me sick...you're all behaving like spoilt children. Accept the way things are...the only people to blame? Your own party. The platform Kerry had to campaign on fucked him over...had he managed a better platform on the war...the rest of his policies probably would've won over moderate conservatives...but his STAUNCH anti-war stance fucked him over.

Anyhow...it's done now. To be honest though...whilst I'm pro-choice I totally disagree with the "right" to have an abortion. It's not a constitutionally guaranteed right in my humble belief, as it stems from a "privacy" right that cannot even possibly be read into the text. If there was even the slightest scope for reading the text that way, I'd agree...but to be honest...the only way I'd agree with the abortion right being a legal one would be if the democrats managed to get control of both houses, and the white house, and passed an amendment, which given how much control of both houses is needed...doesn't seem likely to happen. It's a "right" only if the government decides to allow it...a negative right...you might not like it but in my belief that's the proper status of the right to choose.

Gay marriage is also something I agree with, and I actually see more basis for arguing that, since marriage is a legal contract, and freedom of contract is a fundamental tenet of US Common Law. It's also protected under substantive due process in the US Constitution...THAT can be read into the constitution.

Ironically I'd say the US Law is totally the wrong way round. Gay marriage IS ALREADY constitutionally protected...by freedom of contract...and abortion is wrongly protected under the constitutution, when it should be a negative right (ie only if the state allows it). Just my view though...

Either way...I get back to my initial point. Kerry lost...he dealt with it...why can't his supporters?

marry rich people
05-11-2004, 09:55 PM
Gay marrige lost in all states it was on the ballot for. I don't see why gay people can't be happy with a civil union that gives them equal benefits.

They shouldn't have to settle for just a civil union. If it's ok to let them have a civil union then just let them get married. It doesn't affect anybody else's life. A gay person is still a person and actually, a more courageous person than anybody else.

I'm not totally sure what I think about abortion. I think the type of abortion that is illegal right now (the last-minute type) should remain illegal. However, I think abortion should be allowed with limits on it. It's a little extreme for everybody to run out and get abortions. If someone was raped or really really doesn't want the baby than I totally approve. Some kids will end up with horrible lives because they weren't wanted in the first place and adoption doesn't always work out to well either.

Ashley
05-11-2004, 10:24 PM
Republican and Democrats both believe partial birth abortions are wrong... they are.
First off, let me say I'm Catholic, and very against having abortions, and thing it is too often used as a form of birth control. However, I believe that abortions should be kept legal within the first trimester. I mean if you're pregnant you should be able to tell if you want the kid within the first 3 months.
If the government somehow makes abortion illegal the ramifications would be terrible. Do they really think abortions would stop? Hope not, or they're living in a dream world. The only think that would do is cause the abortions to be done in places which are less sanitary and more dangerous.

CFC
06-11-2004, 04:39 AM
You must not have checked since 2001, it's called the US PATRIOT Act. Look it up.

I don't have anything to hide, so I am not afraid of the patriot act.

They shouldn't have to settle for just a civil union. If it's ok to let them have a civil union then just let them get married. It doesn't affect anybody else's life. A gay person is still a person and actually, a more courageous person than anybody else.


No, gay people are not more or less courageous then a straight person. I think they are gonna have to settle for civil unions and should, they have all the same benefits of marriage, just a different name.

Hazzle
07-11-2004, 01:04 AM
No, gay people are not more or less courageous then a straight person. I think they are gonna have to settle for civil unions and should, they have all the same benefits of marriage, just a different name.

But why the different name? A marriage is just a contract...it has no other meaning other than that...a marriage IS actually nothing more than a "civil union"...no...it is NOT a religious bond...it is a CONTRACTUAL ones...we don't stop gay people contracting to buy goods, or contracting to procure services...I'm sure we don't stop gay people contracting for jobs...so why not marriage, which is nothing more than a contract?

Are now saying gay people have unequal right to contract?! That's rather an extreme thing...so gay people can't buy things now?! :icon_surp

See where the far right conservative view ends up? At its logical conclusion it means gay people can't buy goods...I'm SURE noone wants THAT to be the conclusion...so to continue this fallacy is idiotic.

As for abortion, I believe in the right to an abortion at ANY stage. The foetus is NOT a baby, not until it is born...no...it is NOT a human being before then. It is nothing more than a parasitic lump of genetic matter that will one day become human. I just don't think it's a constitutionally protected right is all I'm saying. There IS no privacy right in the constitution. If the Bill of Rights protects certain areas of privacy (freedom of conscience, freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into one's home, freedom from having troops barracked in one's home etc) but not others, clearly that's intention. If the framers intended a right from government intrusion into "private space" they could have simply put that in...it's not like the concept of privacy was unknown in 1787.

marry rich people
07-11-2004, 05:46 PM
No, gay people are not more or less courageous then a straight person. I think they are gonna have to settle for civil unions and should, they have all the same benefits of marriage, just a different name.

If a civil union is the same as a marriage, just by a different name, then why not just let a gay couple call what they have marriage is there's no difference? If a gay couple can have a civil union then what are the reasons for them simply not calling it a marriage?

I said gay people are more courageous in the way that most gay people know they will face discrimination and ridicule in society but they stand up for what they believe in and tell people that they are gay. I think that should be called courageous.

CFC
07-11-2004, 06:41 PM
If a gay couple can have a civil union then what are the reasons for them simply not calling it a marriage?


Because it offends a lot of Christians and people. Thats why. 11 states agree.


(I don't care if gay people call it marriage or civil union or whatever. I just don't think they will be able to call it marriage here in the US)

Jacoby
07-11-2004, 06:42 PM
Because it offends a lot of Christians and people. Thats why. 11 states agree.

That's a retarded reason.

Ashley
07-11-2004, 06:45 PM
Because it offends a lot of Christians and people. Thats why. 11 states agree.


(I don't care if gay people call it marriage or civil union or whatever. I just don't think they will be able to call it marriage here in the US)


That has to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. I thank you for bringing down the IQ of everyone who has read this post... really top job on that.

CFC
07-11-2004, 06:49 PM
I just state the facts.

marry rich people
07-11-2004, 09:53 PM
I know you're just stating the facts but in this democracy we have, 11 out of 50 states counts for nothing.

CFC
08-11-2004, 12:08 AM
Yes i know that. But if it was on the ballot as a national issue, do you really think it would stand a chance at passing? Sadly I don't think it would stand a snowball's chance in hell.

Hazzle
08-11-2004, 03:05 AM
Offends Christians? Since when did America have an established religion? I thought there was a seperation of church and state?

CFC
08-11-2004, 03:20 AM
That is what they want you to think.

Ashley
08-11-2004, 03:40 AM
Offends Christians? Since when did America have an established religion? I thought there was a seperation of church and state?

That's how it should be, and how it was meant to be. But our lovely leader is a born-again Christian who was elected by the small town Christians.

bob
08-11-2004, 03:43 AM
he's a born-again christian? is that to imply that there was a time when he wasn't?

and don't you all think this is just a bit idealistic? sure, they're causes we should be fighting for, but at the same time i find it hard to believe that christianity and its effect on the general public's moral values will just fade away.

Ashley
08-11-2004, 04:27 AM
No, they won't fade away. But I think when voting your morals shouldn't be the only thing you base your vote on. I personally leave my religious beliefs at the door. I have to think about my future, and if I'll be able to get a job out of college, which the outlook is grim.
And Bush lost faith and now is a born again Methodist I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

bob
08-11-2004, 04:32 AM
But I think when voting your morals shouldn't be the only thing you base your vote on. I personally leave my religious beliefs at the door.
but then you have to take into account the number of people who base their entire lives (and the way they live) on their extremist orthodox beliefs. you'd want to change their opinion, but they're usually the ones who can't be swayed.

we need more acceptance. education is the key.

Ashley
08-11-2004, 04:40 AM
we need more acceptance. education is the key.

I totally agree with you. I believe if the small town Christians were educated on all the facts they wouldn't have based their vote solely on that. That's considering Kerry was for giving the middle class a tax break, which would help them out. But like you said, they're usually ones that can't be swayed.
/me shrugs

CFC
08-11-2004, 08:06 PM
Blind faith is powerful.

marry rich people
08-11-2004, 10:22 PM
unfortunately