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CFC
03-11-2004, 04:44 AM
That there will be four more years of W. They just called Ohio, the major swing state, for Bush. Kerry can't win now, unless he runs the table on all the other states, then there is a tie. If there is a tie it goes to the house, which the Republicans own. So its over.

Good night. I will sleep well tonight.

bob
03-11-2004, 06:49 AM
i can understand people not liking it when other diss bush... but then why are they so afraid of kerry?

deviljet88
03-11-2004, 06:55 AM
Yay, everyone hates my political views! Good for you Americans. I guess =\

seitanic
03-11-2004, 08:30 AM
I, for one, welcome our new republican overlords...






this election has turned out to be a major dissapointment for me :(

Liam
03-11-2004, 08:40 AM
Ah well.

Better the devil we know eh.

Glare
03-11-2004, 08:56 AM
There was an election in the USA?

deviljet88
03-11-2004, 08:59 AM
Apparently. Do you even know there was an election in Australia?

Leonie
03-11-2004, 09:10 AM
I heard this one interviewer on the radio ask this random person: "So, are you sad Bush won?" And the guy answered: "Ah well, now at least he'll have to clean up his own mess." :D

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 12:05 PM
There was an election in the USA?

Sort of...now we just call it a "prelude to litigation".

Spire
03-11-2004, 01:42 PM
Good.

bob
03-11-2004, 01:58 PM
Apparently. Do you even know there was an election in Australia?
http://www.spinstartshere.com/archives/libkilling.JPG

"I don't know where you live but I'm very good at research"

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 02:00 PM
awwwww.

Sarah
03-11-2004, 02:05 PM
Britney for Queen

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 02:39 PM
Cheer up love...Hilary's got a clear path in 2008.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041103/mdf746833.jpg

Someone on another board said that Kerry just conceded. And, a check of Yahoo confirms it. Kerry called Bush and conceded. Thankfully, I was wrong. It is over.

Ashley
03-11-2004, 03:34 PM
I'm incredible disappointed that Bush won. He's... blag.... I should probably keep my opinions to myself at the present time and let myself cool off. But, it should be an interesting next 4 years. I'll be in Canada.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 03:38 PM
I voted for Bush. I don't support all of his positions, as I am a Libertarian.
However, a Kerry victory probably would have diminished the Democrats' chances in 2008. The House and Senate would have been incredibly unfriendly, and Kerry would have made Carter look like FDR.

Mags
03-11-2004, 04:29 PM
I'm incredible disappointed that Bush won. He's... blag.... I should probably keep my opinions to myself at the present time and let myself cool off. But, it should be an interesting next 4 years. I'll be in Canada.


I'm bumming a ride with Ashley.

Well done America, we wouldn't want to change horsemen mid-apocalypse now would we?

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 04:40 PM
Punch everyone your age who didn't vote. Apparently, the X-Box won out over the ballot box. The percentage of 18-29 year olds who voted was exactly the same as 2000. So much for outrage.

Mags
03-11-2004, 04:44 PM
Wanna year something even worse? Approximately 10,000,000 people voted against gay marriage in different states. Bush won the popular vote by about 3.5 million.

I'm glad everyone hates the gays enough to fuck us for another 4 years.



Clinton in 2008!!!

Ashley
03-11-2004, 04:48 PM
P Diddy's going to be busy killing all the non-voters.

What does everyone (especially those overseas) think this will do for world relations? I've been watching the news and according to some reporters overseas it looks grim.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 04:49 PM
I've been married. What the fuck do they want that right?
I'm kidding.
I think Bush needs to back the fuck up off the Constitutional Amendment. 'Tis one of the things I didn't like.

Ashley
03-11-2004, 04:53 PM
Two of my best friends are gay, and it's a shame that they have no chance of getting married. I discussed this with a very conservative friend of mine a while ago. He asked what the point was in giving them the right to get married, and that they didn't need it because it was just a piece of paper, and just a ceremony. It's a crap argument. If they want to get married let them fucking get married! What people do on their time is their own buisiness.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 04:57 PM
I agree.
Did Oregon strike it down? I know that race was close before I OD'd on coverage.

Ashley
03-11-2004, 04:58 PM
Last I heard Oregon was the only state that voted against banning it.
NBC is already talking about people running in 2008. Something to look forward to.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 05:10 PM
It's a sticky situation. And one, quite frankly that should be handled by the states. As is the case with marriage in general...and most issues that the federal government insists on sticking its nose in.

ralfusius
03-11-2004, 05:19 PM
I think this election thing is too much in our media, I know america is "big" and "important" but i would have gotten the message with less media fuzz too.
How many American people know that Theo van Gogh (yes, somehow he was related to the famous painter) was killed yesterday he was a guy with his own opinion about moslims etc. and he made movies. I didn't like him but it's a shame he was killed, by an extremistic moslim.

ps.
Gerrie Kneteman died yesterday too, he was a professional cyclist +-25 years ago.

Sarah
03-11-2004, 05:42 PM
If Bill Clinton wanted to be president again, would that be allowed? I have no idea how it all works, so I am very curious.

Leonie
03-11-2004, 05:49 PM
I could be wrong, but I think we're talking Hilary Clinton.

Sarah
03-11-2004, 05:56 PM
I could be wrong, but I think we're talking Hilary Clinton.

Yes, I know we are. I was just changing the subject.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 06:10 PM
Well, if you were serious about the question...no. He can't run again.

Sarah
03-11-2004, 06:11 PM
Well, if you were serious about the question...no. He can't run again.

Thats a shame.

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 06:15 PM
Not really...unless of course you are speaking from a purely comedic standpoint.

Ashley
03-11-2004, 06:18 PM
How many American people know that Theo van Gogh (yes, somehow he was related to the famous painter) was killed yesterday he was a guy with his own opinion about moslims etc. and he made movies. I didn't like him but it's a shame he was killed, by an extremistic moslim.


That was actually on the news here that he was killed in Amsterdam. It is a shame. But maybe I'm mis-reading you but the presidential election is bigger than that.
Another question, do you think Bush can mend things with other countries and get allies back?

Richard
03-11-2004, 07:14 PM
I was rooting for Kerry. But I knew half-way through the election Bush was gonna take the cake. Lucky him.

In 2008, I will vote for my first time... and if Hilary Clinton considers running for President, she will get my vote and that would make history. It's time to put a skirt in office.

marry rich people
03-11-2004, 09:42 PM
Wanna year something even worse? Approximately 10,000,000 people voted against gay marriage in different states.

That is so incredibly fucking sad. What is our world coming to when basic civil freedoms are being taken away?

I heard this one interviewer on the radio ask this random person: "So, are you sad Bush won?" And the guy answered: "Ah well, now at least he'll have to clean up his own mess."

That's the high point. Kerry would come off looking like a bad president with all the things he would have to clean up. And we already know Bush is a bad president so maybe he can at least clean up after himself.

I say we bring Clinton back. He was a pretty good president, one of the best we've had in awhile. He also set Bush up without many problems to deal with, either. Not to mention he was such a big pimp.

It's a sticky situation. And one, quite frankly that should be handled by the states. As is the case with marriage in general...and most issues that the federal government insists on sticking its nose in.

For some reason people think it's ok to bring their religion into the marriage issue. I guess everybody missed the "seperation of church and state" memo. It's not an issue that should even be touched by the government. Let people marry. It doesn't fucking affect you. Forgive me...I needed a vent.

Richard
03-11-2004, 10:13 PM
What is this country coming to... BUSH, DICK, COLON....? ;)

hasselbrad
03-11-2004, 10:59 PM
I say we bring Clinton back. He was a pretty good president, one of the best we've had in awhile. He also set Bush up without many problems to deal with, either.

Not exactly. Our current economic slump was being pointed to by indicators as early as late 1998. Osama Bin Laden was offered on a silver platter repeatedly to Bill Clinton, but he refused. Several acts of terrorism and murder against U.S. citizens and military personnel happened without response. The great economy everyone points to during the Clinton administration was due mostly to the smoke and mirrors of the dot com revolution. As that unravelled in the late 1990s, so went the economy.
For all of the complaining about the economy, it's really not that bad. The late 1970s and early 1980s were a disaster.
Double digit inflation. Double digit unemployment. Double digit interest rates.
We're currently running at about 5.4% unemployment, which is pretty low.
Funny how the media points to this number and gasps while Bush is in office, yet it was about at the same point, if not a few ticks higher, during the glorious Clinton years.
Manufacturing jobs in this country aren't just being outsourced. They're being made obsolete by technology. Lots of jobs have been made obsolete by technology. This requires a shift in the workforce. The "good jobs" that are being taken by illegal immigrants, are by and large jobs that Americans don't want to do. Migrant farming and roofing aren't really that glamorous.

I voted for George Bush because he has executive experience. John Kerry has spent his career in the legislative branch. I did not feel that he would ever have the resolve to make a decision without first consulting polls from every demographic. While this sounds warm and fuzzy, the reality is that he would have been a largely ineffective president. Whether or not you agree with his policies, you cannot fault George Bush's resolve. He takes a stand no matter how unpopular it may be.
Why did Vietnam turn into a quagmire? Because the United States never fully committed to winning. Popular opinion turned against it, and LBJ (a career senator) allowed himself to be indecisive. It took Nixon (a former governor) to extricate us.
Had John Kerry been elected, the aforementioned indecisive nature, coupled with the loss of Democratic seats in the House and Senate, would have crippled his presidency.

marry rich people
03-11-2004, 11:00 PM
What is this country coming to... BUSH, DICK, COLON....?

Apparently people get higher government positions when they are named after body parts. I'm expecting a President Penis in the next election.

Mags
03-11-2004, 11:31 PM
Um...

As someone who lived in Texas during Bush's time as governor, I can tell you that the position of governor in Texas politics is nearly useless. The office really has no executive power. In fact, the position of Lieutenent Governor and most land commissioners actually have more real power than the position of governor does. I think the governor's largest actual responsibility is to call into session the legislative powers in Texas. That's about it.

DragonRat
03-11-2004, 11:58 PM
I think the governor's largest actual responsibility is to call into session the legislative powers in Texas. That's about it.

Funny how that ability can come in handy, considering it's Cheney who's calling Senate to session.

At any rate, it's true that Kerry looked wavering and indecisive, and Bush always stood at his ground and never wavered, no matter how peculiarly cavalier his actions were. And, when it came to moral values, the ability to act when necessary seems cogent to the idea of faith. And many people believed that his actions after 9/11 correlated to a strong leader still.

I voted for Kerry, simply because I chose the lesser of two evils. I dislike the way he seemed to change his policy all the time, but I disliked Bush more for his own way of handling things (not to my liking). And, let's face it, Bush won the popular vote as well, by quite a distinct margin. I simply hope that he can do something about anything this time around (everyone, I suppose, gets a second chance), and not try to hide his errors in the ongoing 'war on terrorism'.

bob
04-11-2004, 01:18 AM
Why did Vietnam turn into a quagmire? Because the United States never fully committed to winning. Popular opinion turned against it, and LBJ (a career senator) allowed himself to be indecisive. It took Nixon (a former governor) to extricate us.
you brought it up. the vietnam war was not one intended for america to 'win'. it was a civil war. interference by america because of a fear of communism... that's justifiable? the best thing america did for the vietnamese situation was to leave.

and not try to hide his errors in the ongoing 'war on terrorism'
so far the only person i've seen that hasn't tried to hide their errors regarding the 'war on terrorism', was tony blair.

Hazzle
04-11-2004, 02:18 AM
I support gay marriage, incidentally...I just don't think it's that important to have job or a right to get married when you're being blown up...just a thought :p

Incidentally...if Giuliani gets the Republican Party's backing in 2008 and given the Democrats basically falling to fucking pieces since they got too used to being Clinton's machine for 8 years...I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a Reagan and clean sweeps...even against Hilary Clinton. I mean women never vote Republican anyway so it's no big loss if a woman stands for the Democrats :p The Clinton name probably won't overcome the reputation Giuliani has...strong leader in a time of immense pressure, good on crime...oh...and he's for gun control and abortion rights too...so even Democrats would struggle to argue that heavily against him ;)


so far the only person i've seen that hasn't tried to hide their errors regarding the 'war on terrorism', was tony blair.

I think he meant use the war on terror as a way to mask other mistakes :p

Ashley
04-11-2004, 04:43 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a Reagan and clean sweeps...even against Hilary Clinton. I mean women never vote Republican anyway so it's no big loss if a woman stands for the Democrats :p The Clinton name probably won't overcome the reputation Giuliani has...strong leader in a time of immense pressure, good on crime...oh...and he's for gun control and abortion rights too...so even Democrats would struggle to argue that heavily against him


My hope in 2008 comes in the form of Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama. If they pair run together for president and VP respectively, I think they'll take it. It would get the minorities voting and women voting, even against Giuliani.

My hope has risen again... it's too bad it's 4 years away.

ryan
04-11-2004, 04:50 AM
That there will be four more years of W. They just called Ohio, the major swing state, for Bush. Kerry can't win now, unless he runs the table on all the other states, then there is a tie. If there is a tie it goes to the house, which the Republicans own. So its over.

Good night. I will sleep well tonight.

I'm glad I was part of the people who helped Bush win Ohio and the election.
He got my vote.

Elijahfan
04-11-2004, 05:07 AM
does anyone think the democrats will a better chance in 2008? i do, because of the whole terrorism thing now poeple want someone to take security, only bush has a experience, though poor. basically i'm think if things continue going south (out sourcing, iraq, horrible US debt, etc) people will really seek for change, possibly change some Reps' to democratics so maybe the dems will win in 2008.

some thing that boths me is that the person with the popular vote (actual amount of votes) doesnt nessacarily win, stupid electoral college.....

deviljet88
04-11-2004, 06:04 AM
Does Hilary Clinton really have such great political popularity in the US? I mean as soon as Kerry conceded defeat, all I've been hearing is her taking on Bush in 2008. But good on her to take the role, if she can. Liked the that wall poster bob, should've spray painted more of that everywherelse heh? :P

LoveKeria
04-11-2004, 07:59 AM
Im an aussie and we, accept for those idiots who are obsessed with gay marriages not being legal, everyone is really pissed that bush won, because its well known here that whoever runs American, because John Howards is in government, will essencially run Australia...and i dont fricken want Bush runing Australia...i hate him. Oh well, Im an Aussie so i guess my views are biased....but i still dont like it one bit.

hasselbrad
04-11-2004, 12:10 PM
some thing that boths me is that the person with the popular vote (actual amount of votes) doesnt nessacarily win, stupid electoral college.....

Bush won the popular election this time...as well as the electoral college.
The only "loss" was in the exit polls, which has, in the minds of bitter democrats, made it obvious that the voting machines were rigged in Florida. That's right, Jeb Bush and his cronies obviously rigged the machines so the state of Florida would vote for Bush. Because it's just that easy. :err:
I know the electoral college seems like a bad thing when your candidate loses, but trust me on this one, you don't want to exchange the rule of law for the rule of the majority.

Ashley
04-11-2004, 05:48 PM
does anyone think the democrats will a better chance in 2008? i do, because of the whole terrorism thing now poeple want someone to take security, only bush has a experience, though poor. basically i'm think if things continue going south (out sourcing, iraq, horrible US debt, etc) people will really seek for change, possibly change some Reps' to democratics so maybe the dems will win in 2008.

some thing that boths me is that the person with the popular vote (actual amount of votes) doesnt nessacarily win, stupid electoral college.....

I actually do think decmocrats have a better chance. There's a lot of things that need to happen however. The Democratic party is very divided right now. We need to mend the divide, and find someone who is firm in his or her beliefs and not a "flip-flopper" as many said Kerry was and that hurt him badly in the long run. I don't think Clinton would change her views for anything or anyone, the problem with Clinton running is that she's a strong, opinionated woman. That turns off many people, look at the response to Kerry's wife (who I thought ROCKED!). People thought she hurt his campaign because she was so outspoken and opinionated. The same could be thought of with Hilary Clinton. It would certainly be an interesting campaign if she does get a nomination in 2008. I'd love to see the political powerhouse of the Clinton family reign again.
Clinton/Obama in 2008!

Bush actually won the popular vote by a substantial margin this year. What has been discussed is instant run-off voting. (http://www.fairvote.org/irv/) I think it's a great idea. It makes sure that the person who has at least 51% approval of the voters wins, making him the absolute majority choice. The current voting method is shite and needs to be changed. I'm not saying this because Kerry lost, he would have lost anyway because Bush actually was more popular... however Bush would have lost in 2000... but that's besides the point. Everyone voting-age American, or even non-voting age American should take a look at IVR.

Another thing is that my age group, the young voters, are not voting! I really am disappointed by the turn out of people my age. Most say "my vote doesn't matter" and "I say who the hell cares?" I'm a democrat who voted in a VERY republican district... in fact only 1 democrat won, and he was the only one running for that position because the other guy dropped out. The young voters would have made a huge difference in this election I think. My plea for everyone in my age bracket is to keep up with politics, not just on presidential election years, get involved and take a stand. This country is just as much ours as it is the older generations. Soon we will be the older generation.

I'm getting off my soapbox.... I'm scared of heights.

Clinton/Obama 2008

marry rich people
05-11-2004, 12:07 AM
I don't want Hilary Clinton to go for president. Maybe a cabinet position but I can't see her holding her own too well in debates. She'd probably switch to a national health care system (bad) and raise taxes on things like alcohol and tobacco. I could go for Obama, though. He seems like a charming young fellow.

On the bright side, at least there can only be 4 more years of Dubya. And also: more George Bush = more hilarious Daily Show episodes.

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 12:13 AM
Incidentally Jet Clinton won't be running against Bush, unless Jeb's planning to stand...GWB has had his two terms now...

My hope in 2008 comes in the form of Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama. If they pair run together for president and VP respectively, I think they'll take it. It would get the minorities voting and women voting, even against Giuliani.

My hope has risen again... it's too bad it's 4 years away.

What if Condaleeza Rice was to run as Giuliani's VP? She's black and a woman...I mean the Democrats are virtually assured women and minority voters anyway...women GENERALLY vote democrat, as do the minority groups...but if the REPUBLICANS could get a minority and female vote chunk out of the democrats...that'd be the democrats dead in the water. As of course the Republicans could still rely on the redneck vote ;)

I also think people get turned off by the idea of a powerful woman. One way to counteract this is to have Clinton run for VP, but can you REALLY see her being anyone else's running partner? I can't. I mean I personally am all for a female president...and I like powerful women...I mean Thatcher was before my time (I was about 9 when she was ousted) but with hindsight in my teens I became a staunch Thatcherite...I respected both her policies and her "balls" for standing up and being counted in a male-dominated field like politics. She too wasn't for changing her mind...so who's to say Clinton couldn't win? It'll be interesting for sure.

BTW I too am not a fan of the electoral college. And Hassel...I'm afraid I must disagree. Rule of the majority is the cornerstone of Democracy.

marry rich people
05-11-2004, 12:28 AM
Not exactly. Our current economic slump was being pointed to by indicators as early as late 1998. Osama Bin Laden was offered on a silver platter repeatedly to Bill Clinton, but he refused. Several acts of terrorism and murder against U.S. citizens and military personnel happened without response. The great economy everyone points to during the Clinton administration was due mostly to the smoke and mirrors of the dot com revolution. As that unravelled in the late 1990s, so went the economy.

There are someone contradicting viewpoints on all of this; it's so hard to know who to believe now.

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 01:44 AM
There are someone contradicting viewpoints on all of this; it's so hard to know who to believe now.

Actually my good friend from Cincinnati said that too...pretty much the EXACT same thing...and he too said the same thing about Lieberman and Bush...wait a second Hassel ole buddy...<peers closely> Nahh...too old <ducks>

Elijahfan
05-11-2004, 02:22 AM
Bush won the popular election this time...as well as the electoral college.
The only "loss" was in the exit polls, which has, in the minds of bitter democrats, made it obvious that the voting machines were rigged in Florida. That's right, Jeb Bush and his cronies obviously rigged the machines so the state of Florida would vote for Bush. Because it's just that easy. :err:
I know the electoral college seems like a bad thing when your candidate loses, but trust me on this one, you don't want to exchange the rule of law for the rule of the majority.

if you get down to the details of it, it has to do with where people live for the electoral vote, and what districts. like a massing of dems or reps in a certain district changes everything. really if you distributed people to places, not that that's a good idea, but then you could take the election, like a board game of risk or something.

Bait
05-11-2004, 03:49 AM
well...i agree with london's headline
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/10099904.htm?1c
:icon_rofl

seitanic
05-11-2004, 04:08 AM
Bush actually won the popular vote by a substantial margin this year. What has been discussed is instant run-off voting. (http://www.fairvote.org/irv/) I think it's a great idea. It makes sure that the person who has at least 51% approval of the voters wins, making him the absolute majority choice. The current voting method is shite and needs to be changed. I'm not saying this because Kerry lost, he would have lost anyway because Bush actually was more popular... however Bush would have lost in 2000... but that's besides the point. Everyone voting-age American, or even non-voting age American should take a look at IVR.


It's nice to see that other people are supporting IRV. I personally think that it would be a wonderful idea because it would allow for more third party support.

Anyway, I'm not the biggest fan of Hillary but I'd love to see Obama run for the Democrat Party in 2008.

hasselbrad
05-11-2004, 12:21 PM
Actually my good friend from Cincinnati said that too...pretty much the EXACT same thing...and he too said the same thing about Lieberman and Bush...wait a second Hassel ole buddy...<peers closely> Nahh...too old <ducks>

*swings cane at Haz...misses...knocks over bottles of Geritol and multivitamins...dentures fall from mouth*

You dirty summabitch you.

Seriously, I was watching a Democratic strategist on C-Span last night. Trust me on this one, if the Dems don't get some people who are more clued into the population, they might as well run Osama Bin Laden for president.
They were discussing the part morality and values played in the election and the woman (whose name I can't remember...because, as Haz pointed out...I am old :p ) said "well, what about the value of having a job?!?"
Making the election a referendum about jobs at a time when unemployment is just over 5% isn't exactly going to get you elected. Sorry, but the majority of people listen to all of the bullshit the media spews, and then looks at their situation...and the situation of those around them...and says, "hmm...doesn't seem all that bad to me.
I hat to sound like a broken recor...er, a skipping CD...but the unemployment rate is about where it was during the Clinton administration.

duckula
05-11-2004, 02:07 PM
Well I am going to come out in favour of the electoral college, I think its cool. Plus, it's not a true democracy anyway, why pretend (luff for representative democracies).

Ashley
05-11-2004, 06:57 PM
I actually have no idea how the Brits elect the PM, but isn't Tony Blair up next year? Anyone think Bush getting re-elected will have a difference?

Hazzle
05-11-2004, 08:28 PM
I actually have no idea how the Brits elect the PM, but isn't Tony Blair up next year? Anyone think Bush getting re-elected will have a difference?

Nope. Blair'll be reelected. And no, he gets a maximum of 5 years...and if memory serves the last General Election was 2002...so...2007. He may choose to hold it early next year though...see the PM gets to pick the date of the election...it's genius as it allows a clever PM to pick an election date when his policies are making him popular. Thatcher used this very effectively...for example picking an election date RIGHT after winning the Falklands War. Winning wars tends to make people popular...

I'm in agreement with Hassel about the Democrats being out of touch. If the hardline lefties would just try and be pragmatic and try and get the party electable again...they may find they would get more support...as it is if the Dems aren't careful they may see a dynasty of Republican Presidents, with hugely Republican Congresses, a heavily conservative Supreme Court and maybe even other tiers of the Federal Judiciary packed too...if they're not careful the Democrats could be in the wilderness for a while and watch as the Republicans stamp America with their brand of conservatism for many decades to come. Scary thought for you lefties, eh? So maybe try and be more moderate...pragmatic...look at what the Labour Party in the UK did...Blair is the first Labour PM ever, I think, to win back to back elections.